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this hour by frederick remington fully

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cooked ready to eat bacon exclusive no

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refrigeration 10-year extended shelf

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life bacon the thickest media center cut

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bacon in the industry at

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[Music]

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you're in the paracast

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the gold standard of paranormal radio

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and now

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here's gene steinberg

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well

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what can i say

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i guess if you live in a cave somewhere

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or way out in the suburbs

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and you want to get set up with

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internet service it doesn't come the

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next day or the next week

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so right now

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chris o'brien has limited cell phone

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access he can't even call us on the

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phone and depend on the cell phone

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working

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and hopefully by today or tomorrow or

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next week or sometime you will have

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internet access that's what keeps them

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off the show no secret conspiracies

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so you've called j randall murphy

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who is available to join us again as our

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guest co-host randall how are things

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going with you

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oh i'm really glad to be here this

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sounds like it's going to be a really

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good show

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our special guest this week is dr

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irina scott

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and she's author of an interesting book

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that we're going to talk about quite a

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bit called ufos today

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70 years of lies misinformation and

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government cover-up why 70 years the

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kenneth arnold sighting was june 24

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1947.

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irena welcome to the powercast

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well thank you for inviting me

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as i was looking at the book

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i came across the acknowledgements

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and there's a story behind a couple of

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things you have here of course i

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recognize a lot of the people i know a

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lot of the people

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so for example

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a very old dear friend of mine i don't

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know if he's very old but real nice guy

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rick hillberg

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he

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supplied photos

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to our arena including those of dr j

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allen heineck and ray palmer now i want

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to tell you the background of some of

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this especially the ray palmer photo now

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dr heineck i met him a couple of times

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and i talked to him a few times in the

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70s and 80s now i remember after hearing

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of his death i called his wife and sent

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my sympathies and everything okay ray

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palmer

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taken in 1965

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it was taken at his home in amherst

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wisconsin i'm not sure if rick

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took that picture or jim mosley who took

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us all to amherst wisconsin so yes i was

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there when that photo was taken and i'd

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interviewed ray palmer

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so that was fascinating and i

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wonder here in

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writing the book irina where do you

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bring up ray palmer as part of it part

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of the picture of the ufo field

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he was

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how he got in was by hiring

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kenneth arnold to

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investigate a ufo sighting

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but he was pretty interesting in himself

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because he was sort of like the inventor

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of science fiction

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back in those days it wasn't too well

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received but it's a huge

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thing now

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and he was also a publisher of fate

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magazine which is still published

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and

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everything

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you've got a picture of his uh coming of

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the saucers right here in your book i

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see ray palmer and the kenneth arnold

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book coming of the saucers

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yeah this looks very well illustrated

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that book is right here in my bookshelf

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great what happened here of course is

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that palmer

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hired kenneth arnold to go to tacoma

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washington

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to investigate the maury island case

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[Music]

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as we all heard the morialen case was

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pretty strange

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it was

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involved

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some kind of objects or slag that was

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dropped one or more crafts

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and when arnold went there he entered a

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spy novel

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it was like james bond

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because he came to tacoma

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and he figured he's a private pilot it's

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not a key season he flew there in his

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plane

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and he couldn't find a hotel room

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all the hotel rooms were taken

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except for one room that he found

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registered in his name

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is in that's range registered in his

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name he tells this in the book

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and he said also that he was being

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tapped whatever he said there people

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were listening

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like i said reads a little bit like a

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spy novel maury island just fascinating

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background that you bring that up this

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is all the stuff that happened early in

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the ufo field and i want to go into

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those details with you irina but first

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of all what led you to even become

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interested

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in this subject especially someone who's

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an academic

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and supposedly people who

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have the kind of background you have

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don't generally get into this

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well what led me is that i was

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almost born interested in astronomy i

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remember

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when i was a kid looking at the stars

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and everything and wondering what's

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going on and later i

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majored in astronomy in college

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but then i tried to apply for jobs and

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they were male only and nobody even gave

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me an application

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and so i went into another field

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but i remained interested in all aspects

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of astronomy

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and although it's unusual also in ufos

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so i've been interested for a long time

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but i really didn't get active until

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later

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now that's so unfortunate you know we

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talk about this all the time like we

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make a big deal now

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that a very successful superhero movie

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wonder woman directed by patty jenkins

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is

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the highest grossing

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film

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directed by a woman but why should we

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even have to consider that why should we

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have to consider

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that when you're trying to get work as

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an astronomer

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they didn't hire women nowadays of

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course you wouldn't have a choice

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that when a woman

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directs a blockbuster film

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that's something special or unique

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is this something you've seen throughout

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your life or just trying to get that

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early job

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no i think there's roadblocks all the

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way through

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before it used to be mail only

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and i'd go to a job fair

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and they would have astronomy and

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physics positions and that sort of thing

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and it'd have a sign up that says mail

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only

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and i would walk in the room and they

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would escort me right back out because

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it was illegal for me to apply and i

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think there's a lot of

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problems with

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discrimination now but they're not as

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formal as they were when they just

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stated

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me only

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that's just outrageous by today's

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standards i mean i was going to ask you

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how did you know that they were

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excluding women and i mean actually

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putting a sign out that's ridiculous

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well that's what they did back then but

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i was reading an article this month

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in an astronomy

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page on the internet and there's still a

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lot of limitations to females and i

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think it's only about five percent of

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astronomy full professors are women now

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well we've seen a couple of them on on

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the

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but so i think it's opened up a lot more

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i think that jody foster's role in

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contact maybe helped a little bit of

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that from a media perspective as well

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yes and i'm glad

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things are better but i think there's

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so could women not get into the cosmos

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club back then is that

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you know that when sagan could was uh

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threatened to be uh

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excommunicated from if he didn't let go

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of the ufo issue

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or

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do you know about that

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the um

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i know he looked down on ufos

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and

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he was always saying oh they're billions

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and billions and billions mile away and

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they can't get here and things like that

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well uh dr scott how about telling us

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some more about your book let's uh this

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looks really good and and uh it it

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actually it reminds me of another book

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uh out of the mufon

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um

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camp here the the ufos and government a

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historical inquiry i picked that one up

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when it came out very good one by swords

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and yours looks like it's right up there

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along with that

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well thank you

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um

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i understand of course that randall got

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the assignment to come on with me at the

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last minute so i did forward him a copy

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of the

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your publisher philip mantle sent me

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but

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the

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didn't have time for him to look at it i

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do want to talk to you though about some

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of the key things in the book

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and the key subjects especially about

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government secrecy and ufos but before

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that have you ever seen anything

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yourself that you couldn't identify

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we're going to have the answer to that

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after we do our break dr irina

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scott she's author of ufos today

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our guest co-host is

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randall murphy

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we also have swag you know we have all

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these exclusive power cast things that

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you can buy we've got like i guess 60 or

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so different items and entails t-shirts

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tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

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jackets and stuff like that for men and

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women we have a power cast aluminum

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water bottle all this stuff you go to

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store dot the power cast dot com store

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dot the power cast dot com what makes it

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special is that the items are the best

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quality or great t-shirts fabrics and

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multiple sizes and colors we even have

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stuff for children stuff for women stuff

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for men we have all sorts of sizes like

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small up to x large a lot of good stuff

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when fresh liquid whey is processed into

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plus.thepowercast.com

369
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:02,720
so irina scott

370
00:15:07,590 --> 00:15:05,360
have you ever seen a ufo

371
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:07,600
i saw something mysterious

372
00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:10,160
have you ever heard of the marfa lights

373
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:12,480
marfa is a town in texas

374
00:15:17,269 --> 00:15:14,079
where they have sort of

375
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:17,279
repetitive sightings of objects

376
00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:18,240
and

377
00:15:22,389 --> 00:15:20,480
it's so famous that they actually have a

378
00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:22,399
viewing area

379
00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:24,240
sort of like the brown mountain

380
00:15:28,389 --> 00:15:25,120
uh-huh

381
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:28,399
okay they have a huge viewing area

382
00:15:32,949 --> 00:15:30,720
and i've been in marfa and i've looked

383
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:32,959
at the viewing area

384
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:34,320
and looked for

385
00:15:37,750 --> 00:15:35,519
ufos

386
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:37,760
and i saw lights and people were saying

387
00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:40,480
oh maybe this is a ufo or something

388
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:42,639
but i thought they were just

389
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:44,639
cars driving along trails in the

390
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:45,920
mountains

391
00:15:48,790 --> 00:15:47,600
because where they're mainly seen is in

392
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:48,800
the mountains

393
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:51,440
mountain range south of martha

394
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:52,320
and i

395
00:15:58,629 --> 00:15:55,920
didn't press me at all

396
00:16:02,470 --> 00:15:58,639
but i knew people that live well

397
00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:02,480
actually on top of a volcano but extinct

398
00:16:05,509 --> 00:16:03,839
in the mountains

399
00:16:07,430 --> 00:16:05,519
north of martha

400
00:16:09,189 --> 00:16:07,440
and i was staying in a place that had a

401
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:09,199
big picture window

402
00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:10,560
and a deck

403
00:16:15,269 --> 00:16:12,880
and they looked out over marfa marker

404
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:15,279
was about 20 miles away it was about the

405
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:17,680
only town you could see was up in the

406
00:16:23,189 --> 00:16:20,880
air and in the desert so i was very

407
00:16:25,269 --> 00:16:23,199
familiar with looking at marfa

408
00:16:27,269 --> 00:16:25,279
in all kinds of circumstances dark and

409
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:27,279
light and everything else i had

410
00:16:33,189 --> 00:16:30,480
a camcorder with a telephoto

411
00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:33,199
and so one night very late at night

412
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:36,320
i saw a light over marfa a big light i

413
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:37,440
thought well this is probably an

414
00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:40,000
airplane and so i ran for my camera but

415
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:41,360
i thought it's going to be gone by the

416
00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:42,880
time i get back

417
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:44,959
and i got back and said it was still

418
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:46,000
there

419
00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:48,240
and so i started photographing it

420
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:51,120
and i photographed it for half an hour

421
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:53,199
and it stayed there it would very very

422
00:16:59,590 --> 00:16:57,279
slowly blink off and lick back on but in

423
00:17:01,350 --> 00:16:59,600
general it didn't move it seemed like a

424
00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:01,360
lot brighter than any of the lights in

425
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:02,240
my

426
00:17:06,949 --> 00:17:04,640
sometime later i called the airport to

427
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:06,959
see if they had any reports of anything

428
00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:08,559
and they said no

429
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:09,280
but

430
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:11,280
the airport closed early it was just a

431
00:17:14,789 --> 00:17:12,640
local airport

432
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:14,799
and so that was my sighting and i don't

433
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:16,640
know what it was

434
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:20,160
so how did it depart or did it fly away

435
00:17:22,549 --> 00:17:21,839
or did it just sort of what happened to

436
00:17:25,029 --> 00:17:22,559
it

437
00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:25,039
because

438
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:27,360
it showed up late at night and i still i

439
00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:29,120
was just filming away

440
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:31,760
and i started going to sleep and so i

441
00:17:34,950 --> 00:17:33,679
decided to go to bed

442
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:34,960
and so i didn't know how it left i

443
00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:37,440
should have stayed and watched it

444
00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:38,559
yeah

445
00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:40,799
i would think so in other words it could

446
00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:42,000
have just been some big illuminated

447
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:43,600
balloon or something somebody was

448
00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:45,039
playing with it you know

449
00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:46,720
it's kind of hard to tell us that you

450
00:17:49,909 --> 00:17:48,400
know if it was anything truly unusual

451
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:49,919
unless you could see it perform some

452
00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:51,360
sort of maneuver

453
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:52,880
no it didn't do anything it just stayed

454
00:17:55,750 --> 00:17:54,480
in the same spot and that was kind of

455
00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:55,760
odd because

456
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:58,400
a balloon ought to move around a little

457
00:18:02,310 --> 00:18:00,080
the airport i'm sure would have known if

458
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:02,320
somebody was flying a balloon right over

459
00:18:04,710 --> 00:18:03,600
marfa

460
00:18:05,990 --> 00:18:04,720
so i

461
00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:06,000
really don't know

462
00:18:10,950 --> 00:18:08,640
and this was thinking on and off too

463
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:10,960
well when things can be explained

464
00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:12,640
you know rationally and

465
00:18:17,110 --> 00:18:15,200
with normal regular technology then i

466
00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:17,120
think it's safe to safer to assume

467
00:18:21,029 --> 00:18:19,840
that's probably what it is is something

468
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:21,039
i mean if we could produce that

469
00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:22,960
phenomena ourselves and there's an

470
00:18:26,870 --> 00:18:24,720
example of how it could be done fairly

471
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:26,880
simply then just because nobody else

472
00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:28,559
reported it doesn't mean we should jump

473
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:30,720
to the conclusion that it was something

474
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:32,559
alien or anything like that but it was

475
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:34,320
sounds interesting at least it was

476
00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:35,440
unusual

477
00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:37,840
well i didn't report it but i was just

478
00:18:43,029 --> 00:18:40,720
curious about what it was

479
00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:43,039
so your book then it deals with quite

480
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:45,440
with stuff prior to the arnold sighting

481
00:18:52,070 --> 00:18:49,840
that was back in june 24th in 1947. so

482
00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:52,080
i'm guessing there might be some stuff

483
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:54,080
in there about foo fighters and ghost

484
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:56,720
raucous there was a little

485
00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:57,600
and

486
00:19:02,470 --> 00:18:59,120
the first one

487
00:19:03,669 --> 00:19:02,480
was

488
00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:03,679
by

489
00:19:07,990 --> 00:19:06,080
the family of cordell hall

490
00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:08,000
cordell hall was

491
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:10,640
the longest serving statesman

492
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:12,400
in the united states

493
00:19:15,669 --> 00:19:14,400
he was called the father of the united

494
00:19:18,710 --> 00:19:15,679
nations

495
00:19:20,870 --> 00:19:18,720
and roosevelt wanted him to run for with

496
00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:20,880
with him for vice president

497
00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:21,760
and

498
00:19:27,110 --> 00:19:23,440
who we talked to

499
00:19:29,669 --> 00:19:27,120
were the daughters of his cousin his

500
00:19:30,789 --> 00:19:29,679
cousin went to visit him once in

501
00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:30,799
washington

502
00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:33,840
and the reports were that cordell

503
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:34,880
showed him

504
00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:37,120
this secret chamber under the capitol

505
00:19:42,630 --> 00:19:40,160
building and it had

506
00:19:45,510 --> 00:19:42,640
creatures they called it they must not

507
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:45,520
look like humans preserved in big jars

508
00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:48,160
of formaldehyde and some kind of christ

509
00:19:53,190 --> 00:19:51,760
craft the daughters said that they told

510
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:53,200
their father said don't ever say

511
00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:54,960
anything about this until we're long

512
00:19:58,150 --> 00:19:57,039
gone but they finally decided to say

513
00:19:58,950 --> 00:19:58,160
something

514
00:20:02,310 --> 00:19:58,960
and

515
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:02,320
they thought this was about 1939

516
00:20:06,390 --> 00:20:05,120
so there's a possibility i'm not saying

517
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:06,400
it proves anything

518
00:20:09,909 --> 00:20:08,960
that the government knew something

519
00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:09,919
for

520
00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:15,440
that's interesting

521
00:20:19,350 --> 00:20:17,360
are you aware of because of your

522
00:20:21,990 --> 00:20:19,360
association with mufon

523
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:22,000
the time that james carry on was

524
00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:23,120
director

525
00:20:27,669 --> 00:20:25,280
uh-huh okay you know he came out with a

526
00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:27,679
book called the rosetta deception

527
00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:29,600
suggesting that

528
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:32,320
the ghost rockets during world war ii

529
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:35,200
especially and after world war ii were

530
00:20:38,390 --> 00:20:36,400
put up job

531
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:38,400
evidently to

532
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:40,480
spook the russians

533
00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:43,440
i didn't read the book so i don't know

534
00:20:47,110 --> 00:20:44,880
i know there have been suggestions there

535
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:47,120
about government involvement in some of

536
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:49,520
the early cases but before we even get

537
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:51,600
to that i want to focus on the main

538
00:20:55,110 --> 00:20:53,280
thing here if you're focusing on

539
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:55,120
covering the book the lies

540
00:21:00,070 --> 00:20:57,600
misinformation government cover-up

541
00:21:01,350 --> 00:21:00,080
when do you think the government began

542
00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:01,360
to officially

543
00:21:05,750 --> 00:21:03,840
engage in the cover-up

544
00:21:07,110 --> 00:21:05,760
i think officially it

545
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:07,120
might be

546
00:21:10,630 --> 00:21:08,400
roswell

547
00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:10,640
but i think unofficially they may have

548
00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:11,360
been

549
00:21:15,029 --> 00:21:14,080
exploring the subject for maybe a year

550
00:21:17,430 --> 00:21:15,039
or more

551
00:21:18,230 --> 00:21:17,440
i was given a document wright patterson

552
00:21:21,190 --> 00:21:18,240
showed

553
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:21,200
some investigation going on in january

554
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:24,000
of 1947 and there were a lot of

555
00:21:28,470 --> 00:21:26,480
sightings reported before that

556
00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:28,480
and so i don't know exactly when i think

557
00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:31,200
they became aware of the subject with

558
00:21:35,190 --> 00:21:34,320
the foo fighters during the war

559
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:35,200
and then

560
00:21:39,430 --> 00:21:37,120
as better sightings

561
00:21:40,870 --> 00:21:39,440
reported i think they were somebody in

562
00:21:42,549 --> 00:21:40,880
the government was

563
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,559
studying them

564
00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:44,400
so i couldn't say but i think they

565
00:21:49,669 --> 00:21:47,600
started before arnold i don't know that

566
00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:49,679
they did but i mean that was just

567
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,760
suggestions that they did

568
00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:53,280
yeah we know there was some briefings

569
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:55,360
that took place and that uh they tried

570
00:21:59,590 --> 00:21:57,360
to evaluate the ghost rockets and the

571
00:22:02,630 --> 00:21:59,600
foo fighters and so on prior to the

572
00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:02,640
formation of project sign

573
00:22:05,990 --> 00:22:04,000
there's some documents out there that

574
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:06,000
show that but it doesn't seem like there

575
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:08,880
was really you know heavy

576
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:11,280
dedicated investigation they received

577
00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:13,280
reports they filed them away they didn't

578
00:22:15,590 --> 00:22:14,320
do much

579
00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:15,600
else with them

580
00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:18,080
at least from what i can see

581
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:20,159
no i just meant there was a suggestion

582
00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:22,080
that made me wonder

583
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:24,720
i think officially project signs started

584
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:27,200
in 1948

585
00:22:31,430 --> 00:22:28,960
and that would be the official start i

586
00:22:33,510 --> 00:22:31,440
think but obviously they were paying

587
00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:33,520
attention to the subject

588
00:22:37,350 --> 00:22:34,799
when

589
00:22:38,789 --> 00:22:37,360
the events happened to arnold

590
00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:38,799
let's do our break here guys and we'll

591
00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:41,840
pick up on got more to come with dr

592
00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:43,360
irina scott

593
00:22:53,010 --> 00:22:46,080
and randall murphy and gene steinberg

594
00:22:53,020 --> 00:23:01,110
[Music]

595
00:23:05,870 --> 00:23:04,630
thank you for listening to gcn

596
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694
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hi this is don ecker and you are tuned

695
00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:17,679
into the paracast let me tell you what

696
00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:20,000
you're going to hear stuff here that you

697
00:27:26,390 --> 00:27:23,360
probably won't hear anywhere else hear

698
00:27:29,029 --> 00:27:26,400
that george snorri

699
00:27:31,669 --> 00:27:29,039
on the power cast with gene steinberg

700
00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:31,679
our guest co-host jay randall murphy our

701
00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:33,600
guest

702
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:36,480
mcgammon scott phd

703
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:38,880
author of ufos today 70 years of lies

704
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:41,279
misinformation government cover-up now

705
00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:42,640
in terms of the government cover-up

706
00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:43,600
because we're talking about the early

707
00:27:47,029 --> 00:27:45,600
days of ufo research

708
00:27:48,789 --> 00:27:47,039
is it just

709
00:27:51,029 --> 00:27:48,799
an a la carte thing or is there a

710
00:27:52,390 --> 00:27:51,039
specific agency charged with hiding the

711
00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:52,400
secret

712
00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:54,080
well i've done

713
00:27:58,470 --> 00:27:56,799
a lot of investigation at wright

714
00:28:00,389 --> 00:27:58,480
patterson

715
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:00,399
and that's where the official

716
00:28:05,029 --> 00:28:02,880
studies that interface with the public

717
00:28:07,029 --> 00:28:05,039
took place such as project blue book and

718
00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:07,039
project sign and all that

719
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:08,240
but

720
00:28:11,909 --> 00:28:09,679
i didn't

721
00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:11,919
think that they did a very good job of

722
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:13,440
investigating

723
00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:15,120
and so i think there was someplace else

724
00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:16,960
that was really

725
00:28:20,070 --> 00:28:18,960
doing the investigation

726
00:28:22,549 --> 00:28:20,080
that

727
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:22,559
didn't interface with the public or

728
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:24,000
it was secret

729
00:28:31,029 --> 00:28:27,120
and i think i worked at mattel memorial

730
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:31,039
institute and they had a project

731
00:28:37,669 --> 00:28:34,480
of working on ufos from blue book

732
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:37,679
in the 19 early 1950s

733
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:40,480
they evaluated the blue book reports and

734
00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:42,640
did the percentage and statistical

735
00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:44,880
analysis of the case studies

736
00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:46,720
and

737
00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:48,320
that seems to be quite controversial

738
00:28:52,389 --> 00:28:49,840
with the skeptics but

739
00:28:54,070 --> 00:28:52,399
when you really look at it the way they

740
00:28:56,389 --> 00:28:54,080
boiled it down was that well it just

741
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:56,399
doesn't seem reasonable to assume that

742
00:28:59,230 --> 00:28:57,840
all of these reports are just the

743
00:29:01,830 --> 00:28:59,240
subject of

744
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:01,840
misidentifications hoaxes

745
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:04,320
and a natural phenomena

746
00:29:09,029 --> 00:29:06,960
well i think they did an excellent study

747
00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:09,039
and they found out

748
00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:10,480
the results that

749
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:11,360
were

750
00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:14,320
under the 0.05

751
00:29:19,430 --> 00:29:16,960
probability that they use

752
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:19,440
confidence level to use in science

753
00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:21,200
so they actually showed that something

754
00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:23,360
was happening but i don't think anybody

755
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:25,200
realized it at the time

756
00:29:29,269 --> 00:29:26,960
and i think the government kind of

757
00:29:32,549 --> 00:29:29,279
covered it up

758
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:32,559
it became available and uh you can you

759
00:29:35,750 --> 00:29:34,399
know you can look through it and

760
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:35,760
i think it's definitely one of the

761
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:38,000
better studies out there and what i like

762
00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:40,799
about the the say the golden age of

763
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:43,200
ufology is that you are dealing with

764
00:29:47,909 --> 00:29:46,320
accredited institutions and departments

765
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:47,919
within the government

766
00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:49,360
at the time

767
00:29:53,430 --> 00:29:50,880
they didn't really know what they were

768
00:29:55,590 --> 00:29:53,440
dealing with i mean the real era of

769
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:55,600
disinformation and denial didn't set in

770
00:29:59,430 --> 00:29:57,840
until after the robertson panel so in

771
00:30:00,310 --> 00:29:59,440
the beginning they did really want to

772
00:30:02,149 --> 00:30:00,320
know

773
00:30:04,710 --> 00:30:02,159
what these things were so they they

774
00:30:07,029 --> 00:30:04,720
weren't actively trying to debunk them

775
00:30:09,830 --> 00:30:07,039
so much way back then and you've got

776
00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:09,840
really good source reporting so

777
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:12,240
what's your take on that

778
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:14,240
my take was that i think mattel did an

779
00:30:18,549 --> 00:30:15,840
excellent

780
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:18,559
job of the statistical study and they

781
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:21,120
had a lot of ideas on how to investigate

782
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:23,440
things that i've looked through people's

783
00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:25,679
papers and i was just amazed but they

784
00:30:28,630 --> 00:30:27,200
didn't do it

785
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:28,640
so far as i know

786
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:29,679
and

787
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:31,200
i think

788
00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:33,760
one reason behind the secrecy i mean i

789
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:36,399
learned this at mattel not at

790
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:38,159
a government agency

791
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:39,120
but

792
00:30:44,070 --> 00:30:42,159
battelle had a project called stork that

793
00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:44,080
was already classified

794
00:30:49,110 --> 00:30:47,200
and it was for investigating

795
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:49,120
russian or

796
00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:51,360
artifacts from other countries

797
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:52,720
and when

798
00:30:57,350 --> 00:30:55,520
the ufo subject came up

799
00:30:59,190 --> 00:30:57,360
we're just wearing a stork which was

800
00:31:01,190 --> 00:30:59,200
already classified

801
00:31:02,549 --> 00:31:01,200
and so i think the same thing happened

802
00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:02,559
in the government

803
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:06,159
that it went under foreign technology

804
00:31:11,110 --> 00:31:09,039
which was a big classified subject

805
00:31:12,230 --> 00:31:11,120
and that's why it's been classified ever

806
00:31:13,830 --> 00:31:12,240
since

807
00:31:17,029 --> 00:31:13,840
and so i think

808
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:17,039
it the subject went into

809
00:31:20,789 --> 00:31:18,960
places

810
00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:20,799
that nobody knew about

811
00:31:25,110 --> 00:31:22,799
wright patterson was

812
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:25,120
open and it was the interface with the

813
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:26,480
public

814
00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:28,880
and to start with wright patterson was

815
00:31:33,430 --> 00:31:30,640
very interested in

816
00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:33,440
ufos and they even put out a publication

817
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:35,600
that suggested they were

818
00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:37,600
from e.t

819
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:40,080
but somebody in washington different

820
00:31:45,430 --> 00:31:42,240
people in washington

821
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:45,440
quelched all these ideas

822
00:31:47,509 --> 00:31:46,559
and

823
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:47,519
post

824
00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:50,080
show to the public as just nonsense and

825
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:52,720
something to laugh at

826
00:31:56,070 --> 00:31:53,600
so

827
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:56,080
since then well they shut down blue book

828
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:58,080
and and their official

829
00:32:03,750 --> 00:32:00,960
uh publicly known investigations but

830
00:32:06,230 --> 00:32:03,760
obviously the technology that the

831
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:06,240
various governmental agencies

832
00:32:10,549 --> 00:32:08,559
possess now has improved immensely we've

833
00:32:12,149 --> 00:32:10,559
got satellites that are out beyond the

834
00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:12,159
moon that can look back at the earth and

835
00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:14,080
the and the far side of the moon and

836
00:32:17,909 --> 00:32:16,320
everything else so we i mean where in

837
00:32:19,909 --> 00:32:17,919
the government what

838
00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:19,919
would these people be

839
00:32:25,430 --> 00:32:23,200
who have access to all the technology

840
00:32:27,029 --> 00:32:25,440
that is able to track these things

841
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:27,039
i mean obviously the public doesn't have

842
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:30,480
access to that so somebody does

843
00:32:34,230 --> 00:32:32,559
who are they do you think

844
00:32:36,149 --> 00:32:34,240
in your opinion

845
00:32:37,830 --> 00:32:36,159
well i work for the defense intelligence

846
00:32:40,870 --> 00:32:37,840
agency

847
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:40,880
uh with lots of high security clearances

848
00:32:46,149 --> 00:32:44,240
and i worked in an air order battle

849
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:46,159
section where we were supposed to

850
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:47,360
identify

851
00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:49,600
anything that was flying over this area

852
00:32:53,110 --> 00:32:51,440
of the earth

853
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:53,120
and you'd think if there was any place

854
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:54,240
that

855
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:56,320
they would look for ufos it would be

856
00:33:01,269 --> 00:32:57,279
there

857
00:33:03,269 --> 00:33:01,279
but nobody said a thing to us about ufos

858
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:03,279
and my supervisors

859
00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:05,600
found something they couldn't understand

860
00:33:10,389 --> 00:33:08,080
and they reported it as a ufo

861
00:33:12,149 --> 00:33:10,399
and it went to the higher ups

862
00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:12,159
and these these were the top people in

863
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:13,600
the dia

864
00:33:17,750 --> 00:33:15,840
looking at the top photo interpreters

865
00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:17,760
and photogrammets

866
00:33:21,669 --> 00:33:19,840
looking at something they couldn't

867
00:33:23,509 --> 00:33:21,679
identify on the ground i mean it wasn't

868
00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:23,519
on the ground it was over

869
00:33:28,149 --> 00:33:27,360
water but it was on two missions

870
00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:28,159
and

871
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:30,240
i would think that they would

872
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:32,960
let us know something about ufos because

873
00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:34,720
it would come up because we were the

874
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:37,600
people were watching all the aircraft

875
00:33:41,430 --> 00:33:39,440
so they reported it

876
00:33:43,269 --> 00:33:41,440
and the higher-ups said that it was a

877
00:33:45,509 --> 00:33:43,279
flaw in the film

878
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:45,519
and it obviously wasn't

879
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:47,519
and they argued with the higher-ups and

880
00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:50,240
the higher-ups continued to say it's a

881
00:33:54,310 --> 00:33:51,600
flaw in the film even though it was on

882
00:33:56,470 --> 00:33:54,320
two different missions

883
00:33:58,630 --> 00:33:56,480
and so did you live and you observe uh

884
00:33:59,669 --> 00:33:58,640
experience this happening yourself in

885
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:59,679
person

886
00:34:01,990 --> 00:34:00,480
yeah

887
00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:02,000
that's really interesting that's

888
00:34:06,389 --> 00:34:03,840
fascinating that's almost like right out

889
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:06,399
of a movie in

890
00:34:10,950 --> 00:34:09,520
where they uh are tracking an object and

891
00:34:13,270 --> 00:34:10,960
uh you know the

892
00:34:15,430 --> 00:34:13,280
the meteor appears to be hovering over a

893
00:34:17,669 --> 00:34:15,440
small town in wisconsin

894
00:34:20,389 --> 00:34:17,679
type of thing

895
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:20,399
yeah this was just photography but it

896
00:34:25,430 --> 00:34:23,440
was extremely good at photography

897
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:25,440
and they couldn't explain what it was

898
00:34:29,829 --> 00:34:27,760
and it definitely definitely wasn't a

899
00:34:32,869 --> 00:34:29,839
flaw in the film because they not only

900
00:34:34,710 --> 00:34:32,879
was on two different missions which 98

901
00:34:37,349 --> 00:34:34,720
minutes around the earth

902
00:34:38,069 --> 00:34:37,359
but they had some film experts look at

903
00:34:40,629 --> 00:34:38,079
it

904
00:34:43,109 --> 00:34:40,639
and they said this is not a flaw but the

905
00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:43,119
higher-ups continue to say that so it

906
00:34:45,829 --> 00:34:44,639
gave me the impression that way up in

907
00:34:48,389 --> 00:34:45,839
the government

908
00:34:49,669 --> 00:34:48,399
that i mean we've had clearances to look

909
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:49,679
at everything

910
00:34:55,349 --> 00:34:52,800
we got on the satellite photography

911
00:34:56,710 --> 00:34:55,359
but somebody was just debunking it with

912
00:34:58,069 --> 00:34:56,720
us just like

913
00:35:00,150 --> 00:34:58,079
just like the

914
00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:00,160
they do with anyone else even though

915
00:35:04,390 --> 00:35:02,480
it's kind of our job to

916
00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:04,400
study what we got on satellite

917
00:35:07,270 --> 00:35:05,520
photography

918
00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:07,280
i think there was a

919
00:35:10,630 --> 00:35:08,880
photo

920
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:10,640
uh person who was

921
00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:13,200
donna hare was uh it was is that the

922
00:35:16,630 --> 00:35:14,960
right name i'm thinking of whose job it

923
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:16,640
was was essentially to

924
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:18,480
she may took part in the citizens

925
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:20,640
hearings and and claimed that it was her

926
00:35:24,870 --> 00:35:22,400
job to actually airbrush out these

927
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:24,880
anomalies on the satellite photos

928
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:26,160
so

929
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:30,560
have you made any statements yourself to

930
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:32,560
this effect besides uh just telling the

931
00:35:35,670 --> 00:35:33,680
story on

932
00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:35,680
shows or is this uh covered in your book

933
00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:36,480
at all

934
00:35:39,589 --> 00:35:38,400
yeah it's covered in my book in more

935
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:39,599
detail

936
00:35:44,550 --> 00:35:41,359
but the

937
00:35:46,230 --> 00:35:44,560
photography would be classified so and i

938
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:46,240
obviously couldn't walk out with it or

939
00:35:51,430 --> 00:35:49,920
anything so um i can't i wouldn't be

940
00:35:53,589 --> 00:35:51,440
able to say anything

941
00:35:55,349 --> 00:35:53,599
what do these things look like i mean

942
00:35:58,069 --> 00:35:55,359
could they be clearly discerned or were

943
00:36:00,230 --> 00:35:58,079
they just sort of blips or splotches or

944
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:00,240
what do they look like actually

945
00:36:07,270 --> 00:36:05,349
i didn't

946
00:36:10,470 --> 00:36:07,280
actually measure it

947
00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:10,480
but it looked like a round object with a

948
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:12,640
dome

949
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:14,240
it was over water and you could see it

950
00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:15,839
wasn't in the water

951
00:36:23,109 --> 00:36:20,790
and it wasn't in any of the aircraft

952
00:36:24,470 --> 00:36:23,119
that anybody knew about in that area at

953
00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:24,480
all

954
00:36:30,310 --> 00:36:26,480
because we kept pretty good track of

955
00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:30,320
the aircraft that were in the area

956
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:32,960
very interesting

957
00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:34,400
and uh

958
00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:35,760
and to your knowledge none of these

959
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:37,359
photographs have been leaked out to the

960
00:36:41,589 --> 00:36:39,599
public or anything like that or

961
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:41,599
found in any ufo books

962
00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:42,960
before you answer it let's do a

963
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:44,240
cliffhanger

964
00:36:47,670 --> 00:36:46,800
and then we'll continue with dr irena

965
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:47,680
scott

966
00:36:59,430 --> 00:36:49,680
j randall murphy and gene steinberg

967
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:04,069
thank you for listening to gcn

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me so after about three days i said

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maybe you know maybe the weather's

1042
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changed or something i said my legs feel

1043
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really good and she goes well i've been

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computer table and work on a computer i

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1069
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1070
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hi it's grant cameron from presidential

1071
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:20,000
ufo.com

1072
00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:22,400
you're listening to the paracast the

1073
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:33,030
we're back with dr irena scott as she

1074
00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:34,880
prepares to engage in a further

1075
00:41:39,349 --> 00:41:37,760
discussion with our guest co-host jay

1076
00:41:40,870 --> 00:41:39,359
randall murphy

1077
00:41:42,950 --> 00:41:40,880
oh we were just

1078
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:42,960
trying to determine if if

1079
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:45,599
dr scott knows of any uh

1080
00:41:51,750 --> 00:41:47,520
leaked information that includes

1081
00:41:56,710 --> 00:41:53,829
nothing came out from where i was

1082
00:41:59,109 --> 00:41:56,720
working because it was all classified

1083
00:42:00,390 --> 00:41:59,119
i mean the photographer is classifying i

1084
00:42:04,309 --> 00:42:00,400
don't know if i

1085
00:42:06,870 --> 00:42:04,319
leaked information from that area at all

1086
00:42:08,790 --> 00:42:06,880
so these objects that you you saw i mean

1087
00:42:10,870 --> 00:42:08,800
could you tell that they were structured

1088
00:42:13,990 --> 00:42:10,880
craft or did they

1089
00:42:16,390 --> 00:42:14,000
i mean i just we just saw one but

1090
00:42:17,270 --> 00:42:16,400
it was definitely structured because i

1091
00:42:17,990 --> 00:42:17,280
took

1092
00:42:20,309 --> 00:42:18,000
the

1093
00:42:21,109 --> 00:42:20,319
photographs we had and

1094
00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:21,119
um

1095
00:42:24,950 --> 00:42:22,880
manipulated them so they were all on the

1096
00:42:27,589 --> 00:42:24,960
same scale and everything looked in

1097
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:27,599
stereo and they were definitely

1098
00:42:31,750 --> 00:42:29,200
something there

1099
00:42:33,910 --> 00:42:31,760
okay and then so um

1100
00:42:35,750 --> 00:42:33,920
what altitude would this have been at do

1101
00:42:39,430 --> 00:42:35,760
you figure

1102
00:42:40,390 --> 00:42:39,440
i figure it was airplane altitude

1103
00:42:43,270 --> 00:42:40,400
but i

1104
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:43,280
i don't really know

1105
00:42:48,309 --> 00:42:45,760
so but definitely off the ground at some

1106
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:48,319
distance not in space in the atmosphere

1107
00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:49,920
at some point someplace

1108
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:54,000
yeah not in space okay

1109
00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:55,920
and uh

1110
00:43:01,750 --> 00:42:59,040
okay so round in shape uh

1111
00:43:03,910 --> 00:43:01,760
metallic at all or

1112
00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:03,920
i couldn't tell but it looked like it

1113
00:43:07,829 --> 00:43:05,359
probably was

1114
00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:07,839
it looked just like an airplane

1115
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:09,839
oh if it looked like an airplane then

1116
00:43:14,309 --> 00:43:12,720
maybe it was an airplane or did you mean

1117
00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:14,319
by looked like an airplane it didn't

1118
00:43:18,790 --> 00:43:16,240
look like an airplane but had similar

1119
00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:18,800
textural features if it was metallic and

1120
00:43:22,069 --> 00:43:20,240
i mean the surface looked like an

1121
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:22,079
airplane the thing didn't look like an

1122
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:24,880
airplane ah okay so

1123
00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:26,640
um

1124
00:43:29,589 --> 00:43:27,520
and

1125
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:29,599
you i imagine would have seen balloons

1126
00:43:33,670 --> 00:43:31,520
like the sky hooks or

1127
00:43:35,349 --> 00:43:33,680
something similar in films before so you

1128
00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:35,359
could distinguish between something like

1129
00:43:40,950 --> 00:43:38,400
a high altitude research balloon from

1130
00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:40,960
what this object would have been

1131
00:43:46,069 --> 00:43:44,160
well my supervisors were above me and

1132
00:43:49,349 --> 00:43:46,079
they definitely thought it was something

1133
00:43:51,910 --> 00:43:49,359
there that was very unusual

1134
00:43:54,150 --> 00:43:51,920
and about what year would that have been

1135
00:43:56,069 --> 00:43:54,160
it was in 1960s

1136
00:43:57,910 --> 00:43:56,079
oh okay

1137
00:43:59,750 --> 00:43:57,920
i believe that was the era of the sky

1138
00:44:03,190 --> 00:43:59,760
hooks but uh

1139
00:44:06,950 --> 00:44:03,200
i'd have to look that up to be sure

1140
00:44:08,790 --> 00:44:06,960
those were huge metallic balloons that

1141
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:08,800
would have looked round from

1142
00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:10,640
above so are you talking about a

1143
00:44:15,270 --> 00:44:13,280
satellite photo like taken down on the

1144
00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:15,280
earth toward the earth or or where were

1145
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:16,960
these pictures taken from

1146
00:44:20,829 --> 00:44:19,440
satellite photo taken down on the earth

1147
00:44:22,950 --> 00:44:20,839
oh very

1148
00:44:25,670 --> 00:44:22,960
interesting and it would have been out

1149
00:44:27,990 --> 00:44:25,680
of focus if it was way up it was focused

1150
00:44:31,349 --> 00:44:28,000
for about airplane height and through

1151
00:44:35,589 --> 00:44:33,190
any other interesting details before we

1152
00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:35,599
move on the subject

1153
00:44:40,069 --> 00:44:37,520
well it wasn't me that reported it was

1154
00:44:41,990 --> 00:44:40,079
my supervisors and one of them was

1155
00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:42,000
pretty high in the government

1156
00:44:45,910 --> 00:44:44,160
and so it wasn't just something i

1157
00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:45,920
imagined it was something that they

1158
00:44:49,349 --> 00:44:47,520
reported and they were

1159
00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:49,359
top experts

1160
00:44:53,910 --> 00:44:51,520
so you figure there's somebody else up

1161
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:53,920
there above your level in the government

1162
00:44:57,910 --> 00:44:56,160
that gets these reports obviously was

1163
00:45:00,630 --> 00:44:57,920
reported and then

1164
00:45:02,790 --> 00:45:00,640
they just sort of uh slough it off and

1165
00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:02,800
and try to hand wave it to the to the

1166
00:45:08,309 --> 00:45:05,520
lower people and we still don't know

1167
00:45:10,230 --> 00:45:08,319
really who it is up there that

1168
00:45:11,589 --> 00:45:10,240
deals with uh the really interesting

1169
00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:11,599
stuff then

1170
00:45:15,510 --> 00:45:14,160
well i thought it came from the cia

1171
00:45:17,349 --> 00:45:15,520
and i also thought they were

1172
00:45:19,109 --> 00:45:17,359
professional people

1173
00:45:19,990 --> 00:45:19,119
that was part of our job to identify

1174
00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:20,000
things

1175
00:45:23,829 --> 00:45:22,079
and if they were professional and they

1176
00:45:25,990 --> 00:45:23,839
thought it was something different but

1177
00:45:27,109 --> 00:45:26,000
they should have explained why

1178
00:45:29,030 --> 00:45:27,119
and

1179
00:45:31,750 --> 00:45:29,040
talk to us about it to improve our

1180
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:31,760
ability to work instead they just said

1181
00:45:37,750 --> 00:45:33,760
this is a flaw in the film which was

1182
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:37,760
very very obviously not true

1183
00:45:42,390 --> 00:45:39,760
yeah and uh i don't know if you've

1184
00:45:43,990 --> 00:45:42,400
heard of an author howard blum he wrote

1185
00:45:47,190 --> 00:45:44,000
a book called out there in which he

1186
00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:47,200
claims to have had an insider sounds

1187
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:49,520
very much like yourself who

1188
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:51,200
revealed to him that this type of thing

1189
00:45:55,030 --> 00:45:53,280
does go on and

1190
00:45:57,750 --> 00:45:55,040
uh so i thought that was pretty

1191
00:45:59,990 --> 00:45:57,760
interesting too so you're kind of like

1192
00:46:01,510 --> 00:46:00,000
an actual real live person who was there

1193
00:46:02,870 --> 00:46:01,520
and has seen something like this take

1194
00:46:05,109 --> 00:46:02,880
place

1195
00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:05,119
yes and that caused me to be very

1196
00:46:09,109 --> 00:46:07,200
suspicious of the government and i also

1197
00:46:11,990 --> 00:46:09,119
found out later that the

1198
00:46:13,990 --> 00:46:12,000
dia actually was investigating ufos at

1199
00:46:15,990 --> 00:46:14,000
the time that happened too that i didn't

1200
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:16,000
know when i was looking there

1201
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:17,680
at that time i wasn't too interested in

1202
00:46:23,349 --> 00:46:21,040
ufos and if i'd have known then i was

1203
00:46:25,589 --> 00:46:23,359
going to write a book in the future

1204
00:46:28,309 --> 00:46:25,599
water paid a lot more attention

1205
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:28,319
but it's something that still is turned

1206
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:31,680
in by my superiors and

1207
00:46:34,950 --> 00:46:32,800
um

1208
00:46:36,790 --> 00:46:34,960
there were top photo interpreters

1209
00:46:40,470 --> 00:46:36,800
photogrammets

1210
00:46:42,390 --> 00:46:40,480
quick question here irina did anyone

1211
00:46:45,589 --> 00:46:42,400
you work for

1212
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:45,599
ever tell you get off the ufo subject

1213
00:46:51,190 --> 00:46:50,000
i wasn't into the ufo subject then

1214
00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:51,200
i don't think they harassed my

1215
00:46:55,510 --> 00:46:53,040
supervisors because they were kind of

1216
00:46:56,710 --> 00:46:55,520
higher ups

1217
00:47:00,309 --> 00:46:56,720
so

1218
00:47:02,550 --> 00:47:00,319
but whoever they reported to again

1219
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:02,560
so what do you think these things are

1220
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:03,680
then do you

1221
00:47:06,870 --> 00:47:05,359
i mean we've you've been in it for quite

1222
00:47:08,829 --> 00:47:06,880
a while you've studied it you've seen

1223
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:08,839
some strange stuff yourself

1224
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:12,240
what in your evaluation do you think

1225
00:47:15,510 --> 00:47:13,760
these

1226
00:47:17,910 --> 00:47:15,520
objects are that are the subject of

1227
00:47:19,589 --> 00:47:17,920
citing reports

1228
00:47:21,589 --> 00:47:19,599
actually i hate to say it but i don't

1229
00:47:24,309 --> 00:47:21,599
have any idea

1230
00:47:26,550 --> 00:47:24,319
i've studied it as i studied it i keep

1231
00:47:28,870 --> 00:47:26,560
thinking well maybe i'll find out i have

1232
00:47:31,109 --> 00:47:28,880
an idea but i don't i don't understand

1233
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:31,119
it at all and

1234
00:47:35,750 --> 00:47:33,359
i even wonder if they're

1235
00:47:37,910 --> 00:47:35,760
material objects or something

1236
00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:37,920
somebody can cause people to see i mean

1237
00:47:43,030 --> 00:47:40,720
not somebody but some force can

1238
00:47:44,550 --> 00:47:43,040
cause people to see

1239
00:47:47,190 --> 00:47:44,560
that's interesting because we have a

1240
00:47:48,550 --> 00:47:47,200
question in the forum here about mufon

1241
00:47:49,829 --> 00:47:48,560
and uh

1242
00:47:51,910 --> 00:47:49,839
it's

1243
00:47:55,829 --> 00:47:51,920
what he calls its lockstep adherence to

1244
00:47:58,710 --> 00:47:55,839
the eth so you're not personally heavily

1245
00:48:01,030 --> 00:47:58,720
invested in the eth you're still going

1246
00:48:02,710 --> 00:48:01,040
well there's something strange but i

1247
00:48:04,710 --> 00:48:02,720
don't know what it is

1248
00:48:06,309 --> 00:48:04,720
yes

1249
00:48:09,990 --> 00:48:06,319
and uh what do you think of mufon's

1250
00:48:11,829 --> 00:48:10,000
policy then do you get any kind of uh

1251
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:11,839
blowback from them on

1252
00:48:15,190 --> 00:48:13,599
sort of your ambivalence about what they

1253
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:15,200
are or

1254
00:48:19,349 --> 00:48:16,720
you know do you think that there's

1255
00:48:21,030 --> 00:48:19,359
studying the ufos for the

1256
00:48:23,190 --> 00:48:21,040
benefit of humanity do you think that

1257
00:48:26,069 --> 00:48:23,200
they've really got any true scientific

1258
00:48:28,870 --> 00:48:26,079
information there to to go on or

1259
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:28,880
what's your opinion on that

1260
00:48:32,549 --> 00:48:31,040
i don't know i think they're

1261
00:48:34,790 --> 00:48:32,559
one thing they're doing

1262
00:48:36,390 --> 00:48:34,800
that's real good is just collecting the

1263
00:48:39,510 --> 00:48:36,400
information

1264
00:48:41,670 --> 00:48:39,520
because whatever theory anybody has

1265
00:48:43,589 --> 00:48:41,680
it might change in the future

1266
00:48:44,790 --> 00:48:43,599
and if you have a lot of information you

1267
00:48:49,109 --> 00:48:44,800
can

1268
00:48:52,390 --> 00:48:49,119
theories

1269
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:52,400
so i think their database is very good

1270
00:48:56,470 --> 00:48:54,480
but is it something you would classify

1271
00:48:58,470 --> 00:48:56,480
yourself as

1272
00:49:00,630 --> 00:48:58,480
truly scientific

1273
00:49:02,230 --> 00:49:00,640
i mean they they really make a point of

1274
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:02,240
saying you know the scientific

1275
00:49:06,549 --> 00:49:03,839
investigation of

1276
00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:06,559
ufos for the benefit of humanity and

1277
00:49:11,670 --> 00:49:09,440
and to that the skeptics that's just a

1278
00:49:13,109 --> 00:49:11,680
call for for being accused of doing

1279
00:49:14,069 --> 00:49:13,119
pseudoscience

1280
00:49:15,829 --> 00:49:14,079
because

1281
00:49:17,589 --> 00:49:15,839
they don't consider just you know

1282
00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:17,599
somebody reporting something on a

1283
00:49:22,390 --> 00:49:20,880
website as being really all that

1284
00:49:24,790 --> 00:49:22,400
um

1285
00:49:26,390 --> 00:49:24,800
evidentiary

1286
00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:26,400
like where do you draw the line for

1287
00:49:31,589 --> 00:49:28,480
evidence then in terms of what you would

1288
00:49:34,230 --> 00:49:31,599
qualify as scientific versus urban

1289
00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:34,240
legend or

1290
00:49:38,549 --> 00:49:35,440
just

1291
00:49:40,710 --> 00:49:38,559
something anecdotal casual

1292
00:49:42,950 --> 00:49:40,720
well i think there's been some

1293
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:42,960
good scientific studies done

1294
00:49:46,230 --> 00:49:45,119
and for example when

1295
00:49:48,069 --> 00:49:46,240
talking

1296
00:49:50,790 --> 00:49:48,079
to people at mattel

1297
00:49:51,829 --> 00:49:50,800
they had really good ideas on how to

1298
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:51,839
study

1299
00:49:56,390 --> 00:49:53,440
the objects

1300
00:49:58,390 --> 00:49:56,400
such as setting up a study area

1301
00:50:01,109 --> 00:49:58,400
getting a control group

1302
00:50:03,829 --> 00:50:01,119
and things like that that would just be

1303
00:50:06,470 --> 00:50:03,839
like you'd write you use the information

1304
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:06,480
for scientific paper and to get certain

1305
00:50:10,549 --> 00:50:09,359
times of photography of them

1306
00:50:13,109 --> 00:50:10,559
and that sort of thing would be very

1307
00:50:16,549 --> 00:50:13,119
hard because there's not millions of

1308
00:50:17,589 --> 00:50:16,559
ufos flying around all the time but

1309
00:50:19,990 --> 00:50:17,599
the

1310
00:50:21,270 --> 00:50:20,000
project so far as i know was never done

1311
00:50:23,990 --> 00:50:21,280
at all

1312
00:50:25,270 --> 00:50:24,000
although they just had excellent ideas

1313
00:50:26,390 --> 00:50:25,280
and

1314
00:50:28,630 --> 00:50:26,400
another

1315
00:50:31,589 --> 00:50:28,640
real good study was by

1316
00:50:33,349 --> 00:50:31,599
dr harley rutledge

1317
00:50:35,829 --> 00:50:33,359
i think his book is called project

1318
00:50:37,270 --> 00:50:35,839
identification and he was a physics

1319
00:50:38,069 --> 00:50:37,280
professor

1320
00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:38,079
and

1321
00:50:40,870 --> 00:50:39,119
um

1322
00:50:43,990 --> 00:50:40,880
there had been a flap around where he

1323
00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:44,000
was it was 1973

1324
00:50:48,309 --> 00:50:46,240
and he thought he would go out and solve

1325
00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:48,319
the whole problem in

1326
00:50:52,790 --> 00:50:50,559
a week or two so he took a contingent

1327
00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:52,800
and did a field study

1328
00:51:00,549 --> 00:50:54,960
and his report was very good too because

1329
00:51:04,150 --> 00:51:02,470
but i think

1330
00:51:05,670 --> 00:51:04,160
it

1331
00:51:08,790 --> 00:51:05,680
there's probably going to be lots of

1332
00:51:11,109 --> 00:51:08,800
theories now and in the future and just

1333
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:11,119
having information

1334
00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:15,520
even if some of it's wrong is very handy

1335
00:51:20,069 --> 00:51:18,800
oh definitely go ahead gene all right

1336
00:51:21,589 --> 00:51:20,079
i want to ask you a couple of more

1337
00:51:23,670 --> 00:51:21,599
things since we are on the subject of

1338
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:23,680
mufon and we know you don't speak for

1339
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:25,280
the organization but it may be

1340
00:51:31,030 --> 00:51:29,040
interesting anyway dr irena scott

1341
00:51:34,710 --> 00:51:31,040
ufos today is the book and we're

1342
00:51:37,349 --> 00:51:34,720
covering the cover-up of ufos

1343
00:51:39,670 --> 00:51:37,359
and also elements regarding mufon

1344
00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:39,680
and their research jay randall murphy is

1345
00:51:45,730 --> 00:51:50,150
[Music]

1346
00:51:54,270 --> 00:51:53,349
thank you for listening to gcn

1347
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:54,280
visit

1348
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1349
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received by critics and readers alike

1350
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1351
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never forget

1352
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1353
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:10,400
officer is haunted by intense dreams

1354
00:52:15,270 --> 00:52:12,960
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

1355
00:52:16,390 --> 00:52:15,280
help after a terrible battle in outer

1356
00:52:18,549 --> 00:52:16,400
space

1357
00:52:20,470 --> 00:52:18,559
but the dreams turn out to be true and

1358
00:52:23,190 --> 00:52:20,480
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

1359
00:52:25,670 --> 00:52:23,200
with a woman whose far away planet is

1360
00:52:28,150 --> 00:52:25,680
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1361
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1364
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1366
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1367
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1368
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1369
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1370
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1372
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1376
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1380
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1381
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1382
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1384
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1385
00:53:35,190 --> 00:53:33,680
yesterday she was trimming her hedges

1386
00:53:36,710 --> 00:53:35,200
what's her secret i heard she was eating

1387
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this new super berry called the erodia

1388
00:53:40,710 --> 00:53:39,160
berry romeo what rooney berries from

1389
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superberries.com they're known for

1390
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1391
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1392
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1393
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1396
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1397
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1398
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need to get done yes you do

1399
00:54:07,109 --> 00:53:57,680
choose health eat purple

1400
00:54:13,990 --> 00:54:10,309
welcome back to the paracast the gold

1401
00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:14,000
standard of paranormal radio

1402
00:54:18,550 --> 00:54:15,280
and now

1403
00:54:21,910 --> 00:54:18,560
here's gene steinberg

1404
00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:24,069
so chris o'brien is waiting for his

1405
00:54:28,230 --> 00:54:26,000
internet connection still

1406
00:54:30,390 --> 00:54:28,240
in fact where he lives the boondocks are

1407
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:30,400
boondocks or something like that

1408
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:34,240
anyway we continue with dr irena scott i

1409
00:54:38,150 --> 00:54:36,240
wanted to ask you here

1410
00:54:40,790 --> 00:54:38,160
with regard to mufon there have been

1411
00:54:42,630 --> 00:54:40,800
some controversies about mufon in

1412
00:54:43,910 --> 00:54:42,640
recent months have you kept abreast of

1413
00:54:45,750 --> 00:54:43,920
that

1414
00:54:47,270 --> 00:54:45,760
i've read some of it

1415
00:54:49,589 --> 00:54:47,280
well i just want to get your take on

1416
00:54:51,270 --> 00:54:49,599
some of it i mean i'm assuming here that

1417
00:54:53,190 --> 00:54:51,280
you're not going to obviously speak for

1418
00:54:54,549 --> 00:54:53,200
the organization or anything but

1419
00:54:56,470 --> 00:54:54,559
you might

1420
00:54:58,470 --> 00:54:56,480
don't want to get you in trouble

1421
00:55:00,230 --> 00:54:58,480
here actually we're troublemakers so

1422
00:55:01,750 --> 00:55:00,240
sometimes we do but don't want to get

1423
00:55:04,829 --> 00:55:01,760
you in trouble

1424
00:55:07,829 --> 00:55:04,839
so with mufon they have this brouhaha

1425
00:55:09,910 --> 00:55:07,839
over a certain state director who made

1426
00:55:11,109 --> 00:55:09,920
some racially charged remarks on

1427
00:55:13,430 --> 00:55:11,119
facebook

1428
00:55:15,190 --> 00:55:13,440
and finally they

1429
00:55:17,270 --> 00:55:15,200
let him go as the

1430
00:55:18,390 --> 00:55:17,280
state director in pennsylvania

1431
00:55:20,549 --> 00:55:18,400
and that

1432
00:55:21,990 --> 00:55:20,559
caused some problems were you acquainted

1433
00:55:24,790 --> 00:55:22,000
with that

1434
00:55:26,710 --> 00:55:24,800
well i read about it and um

1435
00:55:27,670 --> 00:55:26,720
i don't think i was directly acquainted

1436
00:55:31,030 --> 00:55:27,680
with it

1437
00:55:35,030 --> 00:55:31,040
he wrote to me later and

1438
00:55:37,030 --> 00:55:35,040
uh gave me an invitation to a friendship

1439
00:55:41,270 --> 00:55:37,040
information

1440
00:55:43,589 --> 00:55:41,280
invitation on facebook i rejected that

1441
00:55:45,430 --> 00:55:43,599
it's got an organization i think in a

1442
00:55:47,829 --> 00:55:45,440
troubling position

1443
00:55:49,190 --> 00:55:47,839
where somebody who has a public posture

1444
00:55:51,349 --> 00:55:49,200
with the organization he's state

1445
00:55:52,870 --> 00:55:51,359
director he's a co-host of the hangar

1446
00:55:54,549 --> 00:55:52,880
one tv show

1447
00:55:55,510 --> 00:55:54,559
john ventry

1448
00:55:59,349 --> 00:55:55,520
and

1449
00:56:01,349 --> 00:55:59,359
suddenly the organization's kind of been

1450
00:56:03,750 --> 00:56:01,359
put in the crosshairs

1451
00:56:05,030 --> 00:56:03,760
it's hard enough to make ufos

1452
00:56:07,109 --> 00:56:05,040
respectable

1453
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:07,119
but if you got something like this

1454
00:56:09,190 --> 00:56:08,160
happening

1455
00:56:11,750 --> 00:56:09,200
it's going to make everyone

1456
00:56:14,710 --> 00:56:11,760
uncomfortable don't you think

1457
00:56:16,390 --> 00:56:14,720
it made a number of people uncomfortable

1458
00:56:18,309 --> 00:56:16,400
a number of people quit

1459
00:56:20,309 --> 00:56:18,319
move on i mean i'm a

1460
00:56:21,750 --> 00:56:20,319
low level person now

1461
00:56:24,549 --> 00:56:21,760
and

1462
00:56:27,510 --> 00:56:24,559
but i several people did

1463
00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:27,520
there was this came not long after

1464
00:56:31,030 --> 00:56:28,880
you've probably

1465
00:56:34,230 --> 00:56:31,040
heard of erica luke's she was telling a

1466
00:56:35,910 --> 00:56:34,240
story about her experiences uh

1467
00:56:37,990 --> 00:56:35,920
just just being a female in the

1468
00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:38,000
organization and and you had mentioned

1469
00:56:43,910 --> 00:56:40,960
you had some issues with being a female

1470
00:56:46,710 --> 00:56:43,920
with respect to astronomy

1471
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:46,720
have you run into any uh

1472
00:56:49,190 --> 00:56:47,760
flock

1473
00:56:52,150 --> 00:56:49,200
yourself or

1474
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:52,160
that might corroborate erica's claims or

1475
00:56:55,589 --> 00:56:53,680
do you find that everything has been

1476
00:56:58,470 --> 00:56:55,599
fine for you

1477
00:57:02,309 --> 00:56:58,480
several years ago i was on the board of

1478
00:57:05,030 --> 00:57:02,319
mufon as the director of publications

1479
00:57:07,670 --> 00:57:05,040
but i got very busy

1480
00:57:08,950 --> 00:57:07,680
and they reorganized

1481
00:57:11,190 --> 00:57:08,960
and i just

1482
00:57:12,630 --> 00:57:11,200
wasn't very active from them on from

1483
00:57:14,390 --> 00:57:12,640
then on

1484
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:14,400
and so

1485
00:57:18,549 --> 00:57:15,920
yes i think

1486
00:57:20,309 --> 00:57:18,559
things are difficult for females and

1487
00:57:22,069 --> 00:57:20,319
some other people i know have really

1488
00:57:23,670 --> 00:57:22,079
complained about

1489
00:57:25,349 --> 00:57:23,680
that sort of thing for

1490
00:57:27,829 --> 00:57:25,359
from several

1491
00:57:30,390 --> 00:57:27,839
ufo organizations

1492
00:57:32,069 --> 00:57:30,400
so not just you move on itself but

1493
00:57:34,309 --> 00:57:32,079
you're finding it's kind of an old boys

1494
00:57:37,030 --> 00:57:34,319
club kind of thing

1495
00:57:42,549 --> 00:57:37,040
what can we do to change that

1496
00:57:47,430 --> 00:57:44,150
well of course if they all get old and

1497
00:57:49,910 --> 00:57:47,440
die off then it doesn't matter because

1498
00:57:51,670 --> 00:57:49,920
attrition will take care of it

1499
00:57:53,109 --> 00:57:51,680
yeah i think there's some people that

1500
00:57:55,030 --> 00:57:53,119
are really

1501
00:57:58,950 --> 00:57:55,040
bigoted

1502
00:58:02,309 --> 00:58:00,789
well we hope then we don't want them to

1503
00:58:03,349 --> 00:58:02,319
necessarily die off but maybe they'll

1504
00:58:06,829 --> 00:58:03,359
retire

1505
00:58:08,549 --> 00:58:06,839
i didn't mean pilots are dying i'm just

1506
00:58:09,990 --> 00:58:08,559
retiring you know that's what i'm

1507
00:58:12,309 --> 00:58:10,000
thinking of sure

1508
00:58:14,950 --> 00:58:12,319
that they'll retire and that will be the

1509
00:58:17,589 --> 00:58:14,960
end of it what about the inner circle in

1510
00:58:19,430 --> 00:58:17,599
mufon where you give a five thousand

1511
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:19,440
dollars a year

1512
00:58:22,789 --> 00:58:21,119
now i can think of spending

1513
00:58:24,069 --> 00:58:22,799
five thousand dollars a year if i had it

1514
00:58:26,630 --> 00:58:24,079
on other things

1515
00:58:28,230 --> 00:58:26,640
but you get five thousand dollars a year

1516
00:58:29,190 --> 00:58:28,240
and you get yourself into this little

1517
00:58:30,950 --> 00:58:29,200
space

1518
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:30,960
and it had as of the last time i checked

1519
00:58:35,190 --> 00:58:32,160
13

1520
00:58:37,910 --> 00:58:35,200
members four of which

1521
00:58:39,589 --> 00:58:37,920
have served as international director

1522
00:58:41,270 --> 00:58:39,599
it almost leads you to believe that the

1523
00:58:43,109 --> 00:58:41,280
first step to become director other than

1524
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:43,119
james carrion

1525
00:58:46,950 --> 00:58:45,119
someone i didn't think had that kind of

1526
00:58:47,829 --> 00:58:46,960
wealth

1527
00:58:52,230 --> 00:58:47,839
you

1528
00:58:55,349 --> 00:58:52,240
into the organization first with a

1529
00:58:57,430 --> 00:58:55,359
donation what do you think

1530
00:59:00,150 --> 00:58:57,440
yeah i read that too

1531
00:59:01,270 --> 00:59:00,160
and i think some people are still in

1532
00:59:02,630 --> 00:59:01,280
there that

1533
00:59:06,069 --> 00:59:02,640
maybe shouldn't be

1534
00:59:08,950 --> 00:59:06,079
i mean that's my opinion um

1535
00:59:13,190 --> 00:59:10,630
uh just as long as they don't have any

1536
00:59:14,150 --> 00:59:13,200
power and they may have power so i don't

1537
00:59:16,309 --> 00:59:14,160
know

1538
00:59:19,270 --> 00:59:16,319
buying your way in doesn't sound like a

1539
00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:19,280
good idea but it's in practice it's done

1540
00:59:24,309 --> 00:59:21,280
a whole lot of places besides ufo

1541
00:59:29,910 --> 00:59:26,470
yeah i guess there's no accepting any

1542
00:59:31,589 --> 00:59:29,920
bureaucratic structure from

1543
00:59:33,109 --> 00:59:31,599
the possibility of corruption when it's

1544
00:59:35,190 --> 00:59:33,119
set up that way

1545
00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:35,200
to facilitate it if that's what someone

1546
00:59:39,430 --> 00:59:37,200
wants to do so

1547
00:59:41,829 --> 00:59:39,440
i guess we shouldn't be too surprised

1548
00:59:44,630 --> 00:59:41,839
but maybe returning to your book here

1549
00:59:45,750 --> 00:59:44,640
if i could ask you dr scott that you've

1550
00:59:47,670 --> 00:59:45,760
got

1551
00:59:48,630 --> 00:59:47,680
quite a bit of historical information in

1552
00:59:49,589 --> 00:59:48,640
there

1553
00:59:52,150 --> 00:59:49,599
and

1554
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:52,160
in your in your mind what does it all

1555
00:59:55,589 --> 00:59:54,079
add up to if you could sort of

1556
00:59:57,829 --> 00:59:55,599
sum up

1557
00:59:59,589 --> 00:59:57,839
in your own mind well what is this book

1558
01:00:01,829 --> 00:59:59,599
what is the real message that this book

1559
01:00:04,069 --> 01:00:01,839
is trying to get out or

1560
01:00:05,829 --> 01:00:04,079
is there something that

1561
01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:05,839
you know besides well just this is a

1562
01:00:10,390 --> 01:00:08,160
collection of information and

1563
01:00:12,069 --> 01:00:10,400
there it is or

1564
01:00:13,510 --> 01:00:12,079
have you got something

1565
01:00:17,270 --> 01:00:13,520
more

1566
01:00:18,230 --> 01:00:17,280
what are you trying to say with this

1567
01:00:19,990 --> 01:00:18,240
book

1568
01:00:21,910 --> 01:00:20,000
what i'm trying to say very very

1569
01:00:24,710 --> 01:00:21,920
basically is

1570
01:00:27,430 --> 01:00:24,720
that i don't think we exactly know what

1571
01:00:30,630 --> 01:00:27,440
the ufo phenomena is but that i don't

1572
01:00:31,349 --> 01:00:30,640
think it's necessarily

1573
01:00:39,109 --> 01:00:31,359
a

1574
01:00:41,190 --> 01:00:39,119
but i think

1575
01:00:44,549 --> 01:00:41,200
experiments could be done

1576
01:00:46,230 --> 01:00:44,559
to show more about its nature

1577
01:00:48,390 --> 01:00:46,240
that haven't been done

1578
01:00:50,549 --> 01:00:48,400
what kind of experiments

1579
01:00:52,150 --> 01:00:50,559
well for example

1580
01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:52,160
one of the patel ideas in one of mine

1581
01:00:54,309 --> 01:00:53,040
would be

1582
01:00:59,670 --> 01:00:54,319
to

1583
01:01:01,030 --> 01:00:59,680
of a ufo such as if you see one glowing

1584
01:01:03,829 --> 01:01:01,040
i mean this would be very hard to do

1585
01:01:06,230 --> 01:01:03,839
because they don't show up on time and

1586
01:01:07,109 --> 01:01:06,240
you just have to wait and see if you see

1587
01:01:10,630 --> 01:01:07,119
one

1588
01:01:11,510 --> 01:01:10,640
but i think that would be very good

1589
01:01:13,190 --> 01:01:11,520
um

1590
01:01:15,030 --> 01:01:13,200
study to just see

1591
01:01:17,190 --> 01:01:15,040
what their spectrum is composed of i

1592
01:01:19,750 --> 01:01:17,200
mean in the case of glowing

1593
01:01:21,589 --> 01:01:19,760
ufos

1594
01:01:24,870 --> 01:01:21,599
and i think

1595
01:01:27,750 --> 01:01:24,880
i mean there's a lot of

1596
01:01:29,589 --> 01:01:27,760
technology you could come to apply with

1597
01:01:32,309 --> 01:01:29,599
them and you could do a lot more with

1598
01:01:34,710 --> 01:01:32,319
statistics

1599
01:01:37,109 --> 01:01:34,720
such as um

1600
01:01:39,190 --> 01:01:37,119
some people

1601
01:01:40,789 --> 01:01:39,200
if a few people see one

1602
01:01:43,510 --> 01:01:40,799
very very people

1603
01:01:45,510 --> 01:01:43,520
very very few people see more than one

1604
01:01:47,349 --> 01:01:45,520
and some people see a number

1605
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:47,359
and also there's different patterns with

1606
01:01:52,470 --> 01:01:48,240
people

1607
01:01:55,109 --> 01:01:52,480
have an experience when they're young

1608
01:01:57,990 --> 01:01:55,119
and then have experiences later

1609
01:02:00,069 --> 01:01:58,000
but their questionnaires don't ask

1610
01:02:02,710 --> 01:02:00,079
how many you've seen

1611
01:02:06,470 --> 01:02:02,720
and at what age and that sort of thing

1612
01:02:08,390 --> 01:02:06,480
excuse me excuse me irena

1613
01:02:11,910 --> 01:02:08,400
bless you for saying that

1614
01:02:15,510 --> 01:02:11,920
this is an argument i've had about mufon

1615
01:02:18,630 --> 01:02:15,520
for a while that they focus in their

1616
01:02:20,549 --> 01:02:18,640
citing reports on the event

1617
01:02:22,789 --> 01:02:20,559
not the person who experiences that

1618
01:02:24,470 --> 01:02:22,799
event

1619
01:02:25,829 --> 01:02:24,480
yeah i think

1620
01:02:28,470 --> 01:02:25,839
a lot more

1621
01:02:30,710 --> 01:02:28,480
information would come out of it if

1622
01:02:32,630 --> 01:02:30,720
there are more information on the people

1623
01:02:34,309 --> 01:02:32,640
because there's a lot more studies you

1624
01:02:36,390 --> 01:02:34,319
can do on that and

1625
01:02:38,069 --> 01:02:36,400
that may be just as pertinent as a

1626
01:02:40,069 --> 01:02:38,079
description of

1627
01:02:42,309 --> 01:02:40,079
what they think is an aircraft

1628
01:02:45,589 --> 01:02:42,319
that might not be

1629
01:02:48,630 --> 01:02:45,599
i know i mentioned this to jan harzan

1630
01:02:50,630 --> 01:02:48,640
when he was on the show and the best i

1631
01:02:52,630 --> 01:02:50,640
could say is

1632
01:02:54,710 --> 01:02:52,640
he said he'd look into it

1633
01:02:56,789 --> 01:02:54,720
which he probably won't

1634
01:02:59,829 --> 01:02:56,799
he said well we collect information if

1635
01:03:02,390 --> 01:02:59,839
it's given to us if it's volunteered

1636
01:03:03,829 --> 01:03:02,400
but that's not being proactive in

1637
01:03:05,990 --> 01:03:03,839
knowing

1638
01:03:07,829 --> 01:03:06,000
how to ask those questions to bring it

1639
01:03:09,990 --> 01:03:07,839
out of people

1640
01:03:12,069 --> 01:03:10,000
i assume that takes

1641
01:03:13,670 --> 01:03:12,079
some kind of level of training too you

1642
01:03:16,309 --> 01:03:13,680
just don't walk in there

1643
01:03:18,710 --> 01:03:16,319
and you ask some sometimes very private

1644
01:03:21,349 --> 01:03:18,720
details about a person's

1645
01:03:23,990 --> 01:03:21,359
life experiences and how it might relate

1646
01:03:26,390 --> 01:03:24,000
to ufos that they see ghosts

1647
01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:26,400
if they see bigfoot

1648
01:03:29,990 --> 01:03:28,000
you know all these things what about the

1649
01:03:32,390 --> 01:03:30,000
family members

1650
01:03:34,309 --> 01:03:32,400
did they have a history of strange

1651
01:03:36,309 --> 01:03:34,319
experiences sometimes a particular

1652
01:03:37,670 --> 01:03:36,319
family as you know

1653
01:03:38,710 --> 01:03:37,680
tends to

1654
01:03:41,190 --> 01:03:38,720
see

1655
01:03:43,109 --> 01:03:41,200
more things in other families

1656
01:03:45,190 --> 01:03:43,119
my family of course must be a big zero

1657
01:03:47,670 --> 01:03:45,200
but that's how it goes

1658
01:03:48,950 --> 01:03:47,680
dr irina scott

1659
01:03:57,829 --> 01:03:48,960
with gene

1660
01:04:02,230 --> 01:03:59,910
attack of the rockoids has been well

1661
01:04:03,829 --> 01:04:02,240
received by critics and readers alike

1662
01:04:05,270 --> 01:04:03,839
it's a thrill-a-minute story you'll

1663
01:04:07,190 --> 01:04:05,280
never forget

1664
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:07,200
a former u.s military intelligence

1665
01:04:12,150 --> 01:04:09,599
officer is haunted by intense dreams

1666
01:04:14,549 --> 01:04:12,160
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

1667
01:04:15,589 --> 01:04:14,559
help after a terrible battle in outer

1668
01:04:17,750 --> 01:04:15,599
space

1669
01:04:19,750 --> 01:04:17,760
but the dreams turn out to be true and

1670
01:04:22,470 --> 01:04:19,760
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

1671
01:04:25,349 --> 01:04:22,480
with a woman whose far away planet is

1672
01:04:27,589 --> 01:04:25,359
intent on destroying the earth and now

1673
01:04:30,230 --> 01:04:27,599
the gripping tale continues in the

1674
01:04:33,029 --> 01:04:30,240
coming of the protectors it's the second

1675
01:04:35,109 --> 01:04:33,039
book of the rockoids trilogy a galaxy

1676
01:04:37,670 --> 01:04:35,119
spanning adventure that pits our hapless

1677
01:04:39,750 --> 01:04:37,680
heroes against powerful fanatical

1678
01:04:42,230 --> 01:04:39,760
enemies that threaten the lives of

1679
01:04:44,950 --> 01:04:42,240
freedom loving beings everywhere

1680
01:04:47,910 --> 01:04:44,960
attack of the rockoids and the coming of

1681
01:04:50,390 --> 01:04:47,920
the protectors classic science fiction

1682
01:04:53,510 --> 01:04:50,400
at its best available now

1683
01:04:57,510 --> 01:04:53,520
for more details visit rockoids.com

1684
01:05:00,230 --> 01:04:57,520
that's r o c k o i d s dot com

1685
01:05:01,990 --> 01:05:00,240
if you're 85 or younger would you like

1686
01:05:04,470 --> 01:05:02,000
peace of mind and comfort for your

1687
01:05:06,630 --> 01:05:04,480
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1688
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1767
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1768
01:08:14,549 --> 01:08:12,720
that's news at the paracast.com

1769
01:08:17,030 --> 01:08:14,559
and don't forget to visit our famous

1770
01:08:21,510 --> 01:08:17,040
paracast community forums at

1771
01:08:25,430 --> 01:08:24,229
okay a little foray briefly and to move

1772
01:08:28,229 --> 01:08:25,440
on and now we're going to get on to

1773
01:08:32,550 --> 01:08:28,239
other subjects except for the last thing

1774
01:08:33,669 --> 01:08:32,560
so irena mufon's last symposium were you

1775
01:08:34,470 --> 01:08:33,679
at it

1776
01:08:37,189 --> 01:08:34,480
no

1777
01:08:38,550 --> 01:08:37,199
okay so they instead talk about ufos

1778
01:08:39,749 --> 01:08:38,560
they're talking about the secret space

1779
01:08:41,030 --> 01:08:39,759
program

1780
01:08:42,950 --> 01:08:41,040
they're bringing on

1781
01:08:44,470 --> 01:08:42,960
some people of different capabilities

1782
01:08:45,910 --> 01:08:44,480
and reliability

1783
01:08:49,669 --> 01:08:45,920
including

1784
01:08:55,749 --> 01:08:52,229
now this is an organization designed for

1785
01:08:57,349 --> 01:08:55,759
the scientific exploration of ufos

1786
01:09:00,630 --> 01:08:57,359
where is a justification to have an

1787
01:09:02,630 --> 01:09:00,640
event like that other than to fill seats

1788
01:09:03,910 --> 01:09:02,640
i don't know because i just started

1789
01:09:06,149 --> 01:09:03,920
reading about

1790
01:09:08,950 --> 01:09:06,159
some of the speakers and what they said

1791
01:09:10,950 --> 01:09:08,960
i just haven't had time to get into

1792
01:09:13,349 --> 01:09:10,960
reading too much about it

1793
01:09:14,709 --> 01:09:13,359
so i don't have too much of an opinion

1794
01:09:17,430 --> 01:09:14,719
right now

1795
01:09:20,149 --> 01:09:17,440
i apologize for that i'm reading things

1796
01:09:22,309 --> 01:09:20,159
now but i didn't i don't have any much

1797
01:09:25,590 --> 01:09:22,319
of a background because i just didn't

1798
01:09:26,709 --> 01:09:25,600
have time to do it last week

1799
01:09:28,950 --> 01:09:26,719
sorry

1800
01:09:30,309 --> 01:09:28,960
nothing to apologize for these things

1801
01:09:32,630 --> 01:09:30,319
come we're just trying to get the focus

1802
01:09:34,390 --> 01:09:32,640
of ufo investigation and where things

1803
01:09:36,950 --> 01:09:34,400
are occurring let's get back

1804
01:09:38,470 --> 01:09:36,960
to your story because you spend so much

1805
01:09:40,470 --> 01:09:38,480
on

1806
01:09:45,669 --> 01:09:40,480
the field

1807
01:09:48,229 --> 01:09:45,679
and also a lot of

1808
01:09:49,110 --> 01:09:48,239
the background in terms of the history

1809
01:09:51,110 --> 01:09:49,120
and

1810
01:09:52,309 --> 01:09:51,120
the efforts to cover up

1811
01:09:54,550 --> 01:09:52,319
the

1812
01:09:57,430 --> 01:09:54,560
ufo mystery now

1813
01:09:59,990 --> 01:09:57,440
is that going on today or is that mostly

1814
01:10:03,189 --> 01:10:00,000
long ago and far away in the early years

1815
01:10:06,070 --> 01:10:03,199
of the ufo field do they even care

1816
01:10:10,950 --> 01:10:09,270
yeah i think there's still ufo sightings

1817
01:10:12,790 --> 01:10:10,960
i think it's a

1818
01:10:15,510 --> 01:10:12,800
it's kind of more difficult to study in

1819
01:10:16,470 --> 01:10:15,520
a way because people can fake all kinds

1820
01:10:18,229 --> 01:10:16,480
of things

1821
01:10:20,310 --> 01:10:18,239
and let's talk about sightings so much

1822
01:10:21,430 --> 01:10:20,320
as the cover-up

1823
01:10:24,470 --> 01:10:21,440
okay

1824
01:10:25,510 --> 01:10:24,480
yeah i think there's still a cover-up

1825
01:10:27,270 --> 01:10:25,520
because

1826
01:10:28,950 --> 01:10:27,280
what people are reluctant to report

1827
01:10:30,709 --> 01:10:28,960
anything for one thing

1828
01:10:32,630 --> 01:10:30,719
and i think if there were no cover-up

1829
01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:32,640
people be out in the open reporting

1830
01:10:35,669 --> 01:10:33,760
things

1831
01:10:37,830 --> 01:10:35,679
because most people that have sightings

1832
01:10:40,550 --> 01:10:37,840
don't report them

1833
01:10:43,350 --> 01:10:40,560
and that's a cover-up just

1834
01:10:45,350 --> 01:10:43,360
mentally of

1835
01:10:48,070 --> 01:10:45,360
causing people to think everybody say

1836
01:10:50,470 --> 01:10:48,080
you're crazy and you're lying and that

1837
01:10:52,550 --> 01:10:50,480
sort of thing

1838
01:10:54,870 --> 01:10:52,560
but do they really i mean

1839
01:10:56,790 --> 01:10:54,880
when we see the polls there's actually

1840
01:10:58,390 --> 01:10:56,800
a lot of people who do

1841
01:10:59,750 --> 01:10:58,400
recognize that the phenomenon is

1842
01:11:01,110 --> 01:10:59,760
legitimate

1843
01:11:03,590 --> 01:11:01,120
and

1844
01:11:06,229 --> 01:11:03,600
how much of this is just sort of hype

1845
01:11:07,990 --> 01:11:06,239
and how much of it is actually true

1846
01:11:09,590 --> 01:11:08,000
whenever i've done some research into

1847
01:11:11,990 --> 01:11:09,600
this i haven't really found a lot of

1848
01:11:13,590 --> 01:11:12,000
examples where people have really

1849
01:11:15,830 --> 01:11:13,600
actually been

1850
01:11:17,990 --> 01:11:15,840
uh harmed in any way

1851
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:18,000
by saying that they are interested in

1852
01:11:21,350 --> 01:11:19,760
ufos in fact sometimes quite the

1853
01:11:22,630 --> 01:11:21,360
opposite so

1854
01:11:24,030 --> 01:11:22,640
you know

1855
01:11:26,390 --> 01:11:24,040
it seems like almost it's a

1856
01:11:28,470 --> 01:11:26,400
self-perpetuating myth by saying well we

1857
01:11:30,229 --> 01:11:28,480
can't talk about it because everybody

1858
01:11:32,630 --> 01:11:30,239
you think we're crazy but

1859
01:11:35,590 --> 01:11:32,640
everybody out there already knows it so

1860
01:11:37,510 --> 01:11:35,600
we're really not that crazy after all

1861
01:11:40,790 --> 01:11:37,520
well it's like the government has been

1862
01:11:42,630 --> 01:11:40,800
making fun of ufos ever since

1863
01:11:45,430 --> 01:11:42,640
almost they started

1864
01:11:47,830 --> 01:11:45,440
and they've come up with ridiculous

1865
01:11:50,310 --> 01:11:47,840
explanations for what people see and

1866
01:11:52,950 --> 01:11:50,320
you'd think the whole idea would just go

1867
01:11:55,669 --> 01:11:52,960
away because the government has

1868
01:11:57,350 --> 01:11:55,679
you know in for has insinuated that

1869
01:11:59,270 --> 01:11:57,360
there's no ufos

1870
01:12:01,510 --> 01:11:59,280
and if anybody sees them they're crazy

1871
01:12:02,630 --> 01:12:01,520
but people are still highly interested

1872
01:12:03,830 --> 01:12:02,640
and

1873
01:12:05,510 --> 01:12:03,840
still

1874
01:12:07,110 --> 01:12:05,520
open-minded

1875
01:12:09,830 --> 01:12:07,120
and i think that's because a lot of

1876
01:12:11,910 --> 01:12:09,840
people have some ufo experiences even

1877
01:12:13,510 --> 01:12:11,920
though they don't talk about it

1878
01:12:15,270 --> 01:12:13,520
actually i think what the government

1879
01:12:17,030 --> 01:12:15,280
says the official line is that they

1880
01:12:18,149 --> 01:12:17,040
don't represent a threat to national

1881
01:12:19,750 --> 01:12:18,159
security

1882
01:12:21,030 --> 01:12:19,760
they they don't actually tell people

1883
01:12:24,070 --> 01:12:21,040
you're crazy

1884
01:12:25,990 --> 01:12:24,080
there was some suggestion by the cia

1885
01:12:28,070 --> 01:12:26,000
that that witnesses should be ridiculed

1886
01:12:29,669 --> 01:12:28,080
but that was a long time ago

1887
01:12:32,149 --> 01:12:29,679
and since then i mean it's one of the

1888
01:12:34,310 --> 01:12:32,159
most popular subjects in modern culture

1889
01:12:36,550 --> 01:12:34,320
now it's in advertising it's in books

1890
01:12:38,470 --> 01:12:36,560
it's on tv anywhere you look it's

1891
01:12:40,950 --> 01:12:38,480
infiltrated its way right into pretty

1892
01:12:43,830 --> 01:12:40,960
much everything that we do so

1893
01:12:45,430 --> 01:12:43,840
i actually i think that the stigmatism

1894
01:12:47,750 --> 01:12:45,440
is a whole lot less

1895
01:12:49,030 --> 01:12:47,760
powerful than what people sometimes make

1896
01:12:50,709 --> 01:12:49,040
it out to be

1897
01:12:52,630 --> 01:12:50,719
i mean i've never really had a problem

1898
01:12:53,990 --> 01:12:52,640
myself i tell people i'm into ufos and

1899
01:12:55,669 --> 01:12:54,000
they go oh cool

1900
01:12:56,550 --> 01:12:55,679
that's interesting have you ever seen

1901
01:12:59,110 --> 01:12:56,560
one

1902
01:13:01,590 --> 01:12:59,120
i was working as news director of a

1903
01:13:03,189 --> 01:13:01,600
radio station in southeast pennsylvania

1904
01:13:05,990 --> 01:13:03,199
we had all those sightings in the early

1905
01:13:08,630 --> 01:13:06,000
70s so i carried the stories

1906
01:13:11,030 --> 01:13:08,640
i was also putting out a ufo magazine

1907
01:13:12,390 --> 01:13:11,040
at no time did my bosses at the radio

1908
01:13:14,070 --> 01:13:12,400
station come to me and say what are you

1909
01:13:15,750 --> 01:13:14,080
doing this craziness for

1910
01:13:17,189 --> 01:13:15,760
so either they were interested or just

1911
01:13:19,270 --> 01:13:17,199
didn't care

1912
01:13:22,310 --> 01:13:19,280
yeah and i mean you got guys like george

1913
01:13:23,910 --> 01:13:22,320
knapp he's like a legitimate news person

1914
01:13:25,110 --> 01:13:23,920
on a television station he does this all

1915
01:13:27,910 --> 01:13:25,120
the time

1916
01:13:31,030 --> 01:13:27,920
when they brought on hillary clinton

1917
01:13:32,950 --> 01:13:31,040
and she indicated an interest in ufos oh

1918
01:13:34,709 --> 01:13:32,960
they're called uaps now that kind of

1919
01:13:37,590 --> 01:13:34,719
thing

1920
01:13:39,189 --> 01:13:37,600
reported very straight and as much as

1921
01:13:40,709 --> 01:13:39,199
they criticized her for a thousand

1922
01:13:42,470 --> 01:13:40,719
different things

1923
01:13:45,189 --> 01:13:42,480
real or imagined

1924
01:13:48,630 --> 01:13:45,199
when it came to ufos nobody attacked her

1925
01:13:49,750 --> 01:13:48,640
they asked those questions seriously

1926
01:13:51,510 --> 01:13:49,760
right so

1927
01:13:53,510 --> 01:13:51,520
you know i think it might be

1928
01:13:55,669 --> 01:13:53,520
a whole lot less

1929
01:13:57,030 --> 01:13:55,679
impactful in people's lives i mean

1930
01:13:58,870 --> 01:13:57,040
this is one of the things the skeptics

1931
01:14:00,630 --> 01:13:58,880
bring up is when people make this

1932
01:14:02,310 --> 01:14:00,640
argument that it's

1933
01:14:04,790 --> 01:14:02,320
something that you just can't talk about

1934
01:14:07,189 --> 01:14:04,800
they did a study on

1935
01:14:09,590 --> 01:14:07,199
airline pilots and although there's a

1936
01:14:11,430 --> 01:14:09,600
bunch of sort of stories and urban myths

1937
01:14:14,390 --> 01:14:11,440
they couldn't find a single example of

1938
01:14:15,910 --> 01:14:14,400
any airline pilot who had reported a

1939
01:14:17,990 --> 01:14:15,920
case and actually was centered by

1940
01:14:20,310 --> 01:14:18,000
anybody i mean this is what they say

1941
01:14:21,830 --> 01:14:20,320
there's just aren't any you know they

1942
01:14:23,750 --> 01:14:21,840
say well we don't want to import we have

1943
01:14:25,750 --> 01:14:23,760
to report it maybe it's extra paperwork

1944
01:14:28,310 --> 01:14:25,760
or something but you know nobody's

1945
01:14:29,590 --> 01:14:28,320
getting demoted or fired or something

1946
01:14:31,110 --> 01:14:29,600
like that

1947
01:14:33,110 --> 01:14:31,120
that would that we know of that there's

1948
01:14:34,870 --> 01:14:33,120
actually evidence for so

1949
01:14:36,870 --> 01:14:34,880
maybe what we need to do

1950
01:14:38,390 --> 01:14:36,880
is instead of you know constantly saying

1951
01:14:40,149 --> 01:14:38,400
oh we can't talk about it because of the

1952
01:14:43,030 --> 01:14:40,159
stigmatism we should be saying what

1953
01:14:44,390 --> 01:14:43,040
stigmatism you know that was a 1950s

1954
01:14:46,310 --> 01:14:44,400
cold war thing it's like calling

1955
01:14:48,790 --> 01:14:46,320
everybody communist it's long

1956
01:14:50,229 --> 01:14:48,800
past and and gone so let's

1957
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:50,239
let's let's just say

1958
01:14:54,390 --> 01:14:51,600
get it out there in the open don't be

1959
01:14:56,470 --> 01:14:54,400
afraid talk about it if you've seen one

1960
01:14:58,390 --> 01:14:56,480
well i attempted to

1961
01:15:01,030 --> 01:14:58,400
publish some ufo

1962
01:15:02,790 --> 01:15:01,040
uh items in the scientific literature

1963
01:15:05,030 --> 01:15:02,800
and i was able to

1964
01:15:05,910 --> 01:15:05,040
which i was quite happy about i

1965
01:15:10,870 --> 01:15:05,920
i

1966
01:15:13,189 --> 01:15:10,880
but on the other hand

1967
01:15:15,030 --> 01:15:13,199
some of my relatives even when they

1968
01:15:17,590 --> 01:15:15,040
found out i was writing a book on ufos

1969
01:15:19,510 --> 01:15:17,600
really harassed me and started telling

1970
01:15:22,390 --> 01:15:19,520
me all about how

1971
01:15:24,470 --> 01:15:22,400
the stars are too far away you can't get

1972
01:15:26,550 --> 01:15:24,480
there from here or there here from there

1973
01:15:29,030 --> 01:15:26,560
and all that so i think there's

1974
01:15:30,550 --> 01:15:29,040
different harassments in different

1975
01:15:32,630 --> 01:15:30,560
places

1976
01:15:34,870 --> 01:15:32,640
oh sure there's pros and cons there it

1977
01:15:36,550 --> 01:15:34,880
is a controversial subject but i mean

1978
01:15:37,990 --> 01:15:36,560
even the fact that they knew about it

1979
01:15:40,310 --> 01:15:38,000
and were willing to talk about it and

1980
01:15:41,990 --> 01:15:40,320
they had some idea meant that they'd

1981
01:15:43,750 --> 01:15:42,000
kind of looked into it from one point of

1982
01:15:46,790 --> 01:15:43,760
view so what did you tell them i mean

1983
01:15:48,709 --> 01:15:46,800
you've taken astronomy did you have a

1984
01:15:50,709 --> 01:15:48,719
rebuttal for the stars are too far away

1985
01:15:53,189 --> 01:15:50,719
they can't get here from there i would

1986
01:15:55,030 --> 01:15:53,199
obviously have the rebuttal that we may

1987
01:15:57,189 --> 01:15:55,040
not be the highest

1988
01:15:58,070 --> 01:15:57,199
level of intelligence in the universe

1989
01:15:59,990 --> 01:15:58,080
because

1990
01:16:02,070 --> 01:16:00,000
the universe has been here for like

1991
01:16:05,350 --> 01:16:02,080
almost 14 million years

1992
01:16:06,950 --> 01:16:05,360
and we've only been here about several

1993
01:16:09,430 --> 01:16:06,960
hundred thousand

1994
01:16:11,430 --> 01:16:09,440
entities could be way ahead of us so far

1995
01:16:13,830 --> 01:16:11,440
ahead of us that we wouldn't even

1996
01:16:16,950 --> 01:16:13,840
comprehend anything about them

1997
01:16:17,830 --> 01:16:16,960
so that's one argument i would give but

1998
01:16:19,030 --> 01:16:17,840
still

1999
01:16:21,910 --> 01:16:19,040
people

2000
01:16:24,229 --> 01:16:21,920
seem to think it's a scientific view

2001
01:16:25,830 --> 01:16:24,239
that ufos are flim flam

2002
01:16:28,470 --> 01:16:25,840
and that anybody that writes a book

2003
01:16:30,070 --> 01:16:28,480
about it or anything is just out to

2004
01:16:32,709 --> 01:16:30,080
get people and

2005
01:16:35,910 --> 01:16:32,719
get money from people's vulnerability

2006
01:16:38,709 --> 01:16:35,920
and all that i'm gene steinberg she's dr

2007
01:16:49,270 --> 01:16:38,719
irena scott and we have jay randall

2008
01:16:53,630 --> 01:16:52,790
you are listening to gcn

2009
01:16:55,260 --> 01:16:53,640
visit

2010
01:16:57,990 --> 01:16:55,270
gcnlive.com today

2011
01:17:00,229 --> 01:16:58,000
[Music]

2012
01:17:02,390 --> 01:17:00,239
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2013
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2014
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2015
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2041
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2060
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2061
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2063
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2065
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2067
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2068
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2069
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2071
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2072
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2074
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2077
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2078
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2080
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2089
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2091
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2094
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2097
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2099
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call

2100
01:21:09,750 --> 01:21:07,270
hey this is marie d jones the author of

2101
01:21:12,470 --> 01:21:09,760
this book is from the future

2102
01:21:23,669 --> 01:21:12,480
and you are listening to the paracast

2103
01:21:28,229 --> 01:21:25,830
briefly irena when you mention being in

2104
01:21:30,470 --> 01:21:28,239
it for the buck writing a ufo book as

2105
01:21:31,430 --> 01:21:30,480
you know full well having written a ufo

2106
01:21:33,910 --> 01:21:31,440
book

2107
01:21:34,630 --> 01:21:33,920
very very few people who do this sort of

2108
01:21:36,709 --> 01:21:34,640
thing

2109
01:21:39,189 --> 01:21:36,719
make very much money at it

2110
01:21:39,990 --> 01:21:39,199
that was my impression

2111
01:21:41,030 --> 01:21:40,000
and

2112
01:21:42,950 --> 01:21:41,040
i think

2113
01:21:45,189 --> 01:21:42,960
a lot of the research is done as

2114
01:21:47,430 --> 01:21:45,199
volunteers because

2115
01:21:48,790 --> 01:21:47,440
there's no government study

2116
01:21:50,790 --> 01:21:48,800
but i think

2117
01:21:52,870 --> 01:21:50,800
there's no there's nothing against them

2118
01:21:55,110 --> 01:21:52,880
from the government from people i think

2119
01:21:58,310 --> 01:21:55,120
there is because i think it's kind of

2120
01:22:02,070 --> 01:21:58,320
important if a certain amount of people

2121
01:22:03,910 --> 01:22:02,080
see and experience the ufo phenomena

2122
01:22:06,229 --> 01:22:03,920
but i think that if the government were

2123
01:22:08,390 --> 01:22:06,239
serious they would do a serious study

2124
01:22:09,910 --> 01:22:08,400
and they haven't that i know of

2125
01:22:12,790 --> 01:22:09,920
i mean they're not appropriating any

2126
01:22:14,870 --> 01:22:12,800
money to study ufos that i know of

2127
01:22:16,390 --> 01:22:14,880
well unless you look at the trillions of

2128
01:22:19,110 --> 01:22:16,400
dollars that

2129
01:22:20,070 --> 01:22:19,120
the secretary rumsfeld suggested were

2130
01:22:22,070 --> 01:22:20,080
missing

2131
01:22:25,030 --> 01:22:22,080
from the pentagon in a statement before

2132
01:22:26,870 --> 01:22:25,040
9 11. you heard that one didn't you

2133
01:22:29,510 --> 01:22:26,880
yeah it could be but

2134
01:22:30,709 --> 01:22:29,520
um and me i'm not arguing that it isn't

2135
01:22:32,550 --> 01:22:30,719
i just

2136
01:22:34,550 --> 01:22:32,560
saying that i don't think there's too

2137
01:22:36,229 --> 01:22:34,560
much evidence that there is but

2138
01:22:37,669 --> 01:22:36,239
obviously it was black budget you

2139
01:22:38,390 --> 01:22:37,679
wouldn't know

2140
01:22:40,310 --> 01:22:38,400
but

2141
01:22:41,430 --> 01:22:40,320
if they knew

2142
01:22:42,870 --> 01:22:41,440
well you'd think they would say

2143
01:22:45,350 --> 01:22:42,880
something

2144
01:22:47,030 --> 01:22:45,360
to paraphrase the phrase in that movie

2145
01:22:50,070 --> 01:22:47,040
well you don't believe they're spending

2146
01:22:52,550 --> 01:22:50,080
700 hours to make a toilet seat do you

2147
01:22:53,669 --> 01:22:52,560
yeah i do

2148
01:22:55,990 --> 01:22:53,679
yeah

2149
01:22:57,430 --> 01:22:56,000
do you think though in terms of keeping

2150
01:22:59,270 --> 01:22:57,440
the secret or

2151
01:23:00,950 --> 01:22:59,280
debunking ufos

2152
01:23:02,310 --> 01:23:00,960
does the government have guilty

2153
01:23:04,390 --> 01:23:02,320
knowledge

2154
01:23:07,110 --> 01:23:04,400
of anything do they know an answer or is

2155
01:23:09,750 --> 01:23:07,120
it something that is going on and they

2156
01:23:12,310 --> 01:23:09,760
are as clueless as the rest of us

2157
01:23:14,629 --> 01:23:12,320
well i would guess from my experience

2158
01:23:15,910 --> 01:23:14,639
with the dia that there's

2159
01:23:17,669 --> 01:23:15,920
probably

2160
01:23:19,350 --> 01:23:17,679
people in the government

2161
01:23:21,590 --> 01:23:19,360
in various

2162
01:23:22,629 --> 01:23:21,600
compartmental

2163
01:23:24,790 --> 01:23:22,639
places

2164
01:23:26,310 --> 01:23:24,800
with certain security clearances maybe

2165
01:23:27,910 --> 01:23:26,320
know about it

2166
01:23:29,189 --> 01:23:27,920
but i don't think it's anything general

2167
01:23:32,390 --> 01:23:29,199
in the government i mean if you go out

2168
01:23:34,070 --> 01:23:32,400
and ask somebody and see i a ufos exist

2169
01:23:36,229 --> 01:23:34,080
well they'll give their own opinion

2170
01:23:38,390 --> 01:23:36,239
because there's no cia opinion but

2171
01:23:40,310 --> 01:23:38,400
there's probably higher-ups

2172
01:23:42,870 --> 01:23:40,320
that do know something

2173
01:23:45,350 --> 01:23:42,880
you you have to have a certain security

2174
01:23:47,430 --> 01:23:45,360
clearances to find out about

2175
01:23:49,270 --> 01:23:47,440
and they of course have the equipment to

2176
01:23:52,310 --> 01:23:49,280
do the kind of research that you talk

2177
01:23:54,870 --> 01:23:52,320
about say doing spectral analysis or

2178
01:23:56,149 --> 01:23:54,880
measurements from by radar or lidar

2179
01:23:57,910 --> 01:23:56,159
whatever they happen to have that

2180
01:23:58,790 --> 01:23:57,920
contract this stuff

2181
01:24:03,990 --> 01:23:58,800
so

2182
01:24:05,270 --> 01:24:04,000
than we do and they're not telling us

2183
01:24:06,310 --> 01:24:05,280
that much

2184
01:24:10,870 --> 01:24:06,320
is

2185
01:24:12,950 --> 01:24:10,880
but i mean are they justified in not

2186
01:24:15,990 --> 01:24:12,960
telling us i mean perhaps so

2187
01:24:18,390 --> 01:24:16,000
the the detection methods that they use

2188
01:24:20,470 --> 01:24:18,400
to be able to track these things is

2189
01:24:22,950 --> 01:24:20,480
going to be classified in and of itself

2190
01:24:24,870 --> 01:24:22,960
and thereby if they tell us how they

2191
01:24:27,110 --> 01:24:24,880
were able to track it and they tell us

2192
01:24:29,110 --> 01:24:27,120
all the details about what was tracked

2193
01:24:31,590 --> 01:24:29,120
then that's going to reveal possibly

2194
01:24:33,750 --> 01:24:31,600
classified information about the

2195
01:24:35,590 --> 01:24:33,760
capability of their tracking

2196
01:24:37,510 --> 01:24:35,600
detection equipment so

2197
01:24:38,550 --> 01:24:37,520
really maybe there's a legitimate reason

2198
01:24:40,870 --> 01:24:38,560
for them

2199
01:24:43,990 --> 01:24:40,880
to not tell us

2200
01:24:45,189 --> 01:24:44,000
about that i mean okay there's something

2201
01:24:46,390 --> 01:24:45,199
up there

2202
01:24:47,910 --> 01:24:46,400
they're not a threat to national

2203
01:24:49,430 --> 01:24:47,920
security

2204
01:24:51,110 --> 01:24:49,440
but that's about all we can say and

2205
01:24:51,910 --> 01:24:51,120
that's pretty much about what they have

2206
01:24:53,189 --> 01:24:51,920
said

2207
01:24:55,350 --> 01:24:53,199
you know when you think about it it's

2208
01:24:56,229 --> 01:24:55,360
not like there's been a huge cover-up

2209
01:24:58,629 --> 01:24:56,239
there's

2210
01:25:00,310 --> 01:24:58,639
been declassified documents

2211
01:25:02,629 --> 01:25:00,320
people from who've been involved have

2212
01:25:04,550 --> 01:25:02,639
come out and made statements before the

2213
01:25:06,070 --> 01:25:04,560
public about it so

2214
01:25:07,990 --> 01:25:06,080
you know it's not

2215
01:25:09,830 --> 01:25:08,000
as big a cover-up as maybe some people

2216
01:25:12,790 --> 01:25:09,840
might claim

2217
01:25:14,870 --> 01:25:12,800
i don't know because if they knew if

2218
01:25:16,149 --> 01:25:14,880
particular people in the government

2219
01:25:18,149 --> 01:25:16,159
knew something

2220
01:25:20,470 --> 01:25:18,159
no matter how horrible it was

2221
01:25:21,830 --> 01:25:20,480
i think they should open up and see what

2222
01:25:24,070 --> 01:25:21,840
they know even

2223
01:25:26,149 --> 01:25:24,080
they don't have to say specifically how

2224
01:25:28,390 --> 01:25:26,159
they got the information

2225
01:25:31,830 --> 01:25:28,400
but nobody no authority has

2226
01:25:33,669 --> 01:25:31,840
come and said yeah that's right and

2227
01:25:34,390 --> 01:25:33,679
officially said anything

2228
01:25:36,709 --> 01:25:34,400
well

2229
01:25:38,310 --> 01:25:36,719
yeah i again i i would agree that it

2230
01:25:39,990 --> 01:25:38,320
would be nice if we were to know but i

2231
01:25:41,990 --> 01:25:40,000
mean if unless they can give us some

2232
01:25:43,990 --> 01:25:42,000
details that are believable

2233
01:25:45,510 --> 01:25:44,000
nobody is going to believe it and then

2234
01:25:47,350 --> 01:25:45,520
if they do give us details that are

2235
01:25:48,709 --> 01:25:47,360
believable people are going to wonder

2236
01:25:51,350 --> 01:25:48,719
how they got it

2237
01:25:53,510 --> 01:25:51,360
including people who might be enemies of

2238
01:25:55,270 --> 01:25:53,520
the state and they're going to go oh

2239
01:25:56,550 --> 01:25:55,280
well they can track that and they know

2240
01:25:58,229 --> 01:25:56,560
this and they're looking here and

2241
01:26:01,110 --> 01:25:58,239
they've got that ability

2242
01:26:02,229 --> 01:26:01,120
so that type of stuff i can see

2243
01:26:03,750 --> 01:26:02,239
having

2244
01:26:05,750 --> 01:26:03,760
a legitimate

2245
01:26:07,350 --> 01:26:05,760
classification where people you know

2246
01:26:09,669 --> 01:26:07,360
they really shouldn't say anything about

2247
01:26:11,350 --> 01:26:09,679
it so it leaves us in the in the public

2248
01:26:12,550 --> 01:26:11,360
sector to sort of come up with studies

2249
01:26:15,030 --> 01:26:12,560
of our own

2250
01:26:16,790 --> 01:26:15,040
i'm noticing here that uh

2251
01:26:18,790 --> 01:26:16,800
you mentioned the optical spectra

2252
01:26:21,270 --> 01:26:18,800
studies uh you've heard of bruce mcabee

2253
01:26:24,070 --> 01:26:21,280
i i trust

2254
01:26:26,229 --> 01:26:24,080
he yeah he did uh a re-analysis of the

2255
01:26:27,669 --> 01:26:26,239
telemary memorial institute project blue

2256
01:26:29,030 --> 01:26:27,679
book files so

2257
01:26:30,950 --> 01:26:29,040
i imagine

2258
01:26:32,629 --> 01:26:30,960
if you haven't seen that that you might

2259
01:26:34,830 --> 01:26:32,639
be interested because he is an optical

2260
01:26:37,830 --> 01:26:34,840
physicist who looked at that specific

2261
01:26:39,830 --> 01:26:37,840
information uh and have you ever heard

2262
01:26:41,350 --> 01:26:39,840
of ray stanford

2263
01:26:43,990 --> 01:26:41,360
i have uh

2264
01:26:45,910 --> 01:26:44,000
bruce's book and i've talked to him

2265
01:26:48,229 --> 01:26:45,920
about ufos a little bit

2266
01:26:51,189 --> 01:26:48,239
about ray stanford

2267
01:26:53,030 --> 01:26:51,199
yeah ray stanford um our

2268
01:26:55,270 --> 01:26:53,040
christopher o'brien

2269
01:26:57,430 --> 01:26:55,280
he believes that ray stanford has some

2270
01:26:59,590 --> 01:26:57,440
really good information and pictures and

2271
01:27:00,550 --> 01:26:59,600
from if i recall correctly that some of

2272
01:27:02,310 --> 01:27:00,560
them

2273
01:27:04,550 --> 01:27:02,320
do have

2274
01:27:05,510 --> 01:27:04,560
this kind of uh spectral

2275
01:27:07,430 --> 01:27:05,520
study

2276
01:27:09,750 --> 01:27:07,440
going on on with it actually right now

2277
01:27:11,669 --> 01:27:09,760
if you were to get a hold of chris he

2278
01:27:13,590 --> 01:27:11,679
could give you uh put probably put you

2279
01:27:15,110 --> 01:27:13,600
in touch with stanford because

2280
01:27:17,430 --> 01:27:15,120
apparently if you've got some

2281
01:27:18,950 --> 01:27:17,440
credentials like you have

2282
01:27:20,870 --> 01:27:18,960
he's willing to share some of this

2283
01:27:23,189 --> 01:27:20,880
information and

2284
01:27:25,270 --> 01:27:23,199
if it seems to be legitimate and can be

2285
01:27:26,950 --> 01:27:25,280
peer reviewed he'll he will release it

2286
01:27:27,910 --> 01:27:26,960
so

2287
01:27:29,590 --> 01:27:27,920
if i could

2288
01:27:30,950 --> 01:27:29,600
maybe point you in that direction that

2289
01:27:33,030 --> 01:27:30,960
might be something you could be

2290
01:27:34,310 --> 01:27:33,040
interested in oh yeah i'd be real

2291
01:27:35,510 --> 01:27:34,320
interested

2292
01:27:37,350 --> 01:27:35,520
there's anyone

2293
01:27:39,270 --> 01:27:37,360
well you can help me get in contact with

2294
01:27:40,950 --> 01:27:39,280
him that would be great

2295
01:27:42,470 --> 01:27:40,960
also if you check the archives of our

2296
01:27:44,550 --> 01:27:42,480
radio shows on the power cast at

2297
01:27:46,390 --> 01:27:44,560
thepowercast.com

2298
01:27:48,550 --> 01:27:46,400
we did several episodes with ray

2299
01:27:50,470 --> 01:27:48,560
stanford of course his claim to fame is

2300
01:27:53,510 --> 01:27:50,480
the investigation that he did

2301
01:27:56,229 --> 01:27:53,520
on the sagara new mexico case

2302
01:27:58,550 --> 01:27:56,239
so that particular case

2303
01:27:59,590 --> 01:27:58,560
i know that you've heard of kevin randle

2304
01:28:01,910 --> 01:27:59,600
he's

2305
01:28:04,870 --> 01:28:01,920
writing a book now on sicario did you

2306
01:28:06,149 --> 01:28:04,880
look at that case at all for your book

2307
01:28:07,510 --> 01:28:06,159
sicar

2308
01:28:09,510 --> 01:28:07,520
yeah or

2309
01:28:10,950 --> 01:28:09,520
roswell the zamora case you know the

2310
01:28:13,590 --> 01:28:10,960
policeman there

2311
01:28:15,350 --> 01:28:13,600
yeah i've looked at it and read it and

2312
01:28:18,070 --> 01:28:15,360
i know somebody that

2313
01:28:19,750 --> 01:28:18,080
had been debunking it for three years

2314
01:28:22,950 --> 01:28:19,760
but i think it's

2315
01:28:25,270 --> 01:28:22,960
an excellent case because they even

2316
01:28:28,470 --> 01:28:25,280
found the imprints in the desert when

2317
01:28:30,790 --> 01:28:28,480
they went out to look for it later and i

2318
01:28:33,750 --> 01:28:30,800
think it was one of the events that

2319
01:28:35,030 --> 01:28:33,760
caused dr heineck to start considering

2320
01:28:37,350 --> 01:28:35,040
that

2321
01:28:39,590 --> 01:28:37,360
ufos may be real

2322
01:28:42,790 --> 01:28:39,600
i assume the person you're talking to

2323
01:28:45,189 --> 01:28:42,800
about skepticism over soccaro is anthony

2324
01:28:47,110 --> 01:28:45,199
bergalia right

2325
01:28:48,709 --> 01:28:47,120
but um

2326
01:28:51,510 --> 01:28:48,719
i think if

2327
01:28:54,830 --> 01:28:51,520
what he said was true that

2328
01:28:58,709 --> 01:28:54,840
it would take a lot more technology

2329
01:29:01,830 --> 01:28:58,719
to do it than just a few students

2330
01:29:04,550 --> 01:29:01,840
from a university

2331
01:29:06,470 --> 01:29:04,560
oh yes yeah

2332
01:29:07,270 --> 01:29:06,480
i know what you're talking about now

2333
01:29:09,590 --> 01:29:07,280
that's

2334
01:29:12,070 --> 01:29:09,600
there was some liner notes and some

2335
01:29:15,830 --> 01:29:12,080
documents that suggested that it might

2336
01:29:17,590 --> 01:29:15,840
be a prank by some of the polytechnic uh

2337
01:29:20,310 --> 01:29:17,600
technical

2338
01:29:22,830 --> 01:29:20,320
facility there and that this doesn't

2339
01:29:28,629 --> 01:29:22,840
it really doesn't wash with what zamora

2340
01:29:32,629 --> 01:29:30,229
it's also interesting this came up

2341
01:29:35,030 --> 01:29:32,639
recently but it hasn't gone very far

2342
01:29:36,830 --> 01:29:35,040
i did invite brigalia

2343
01:29:39,110 --> 01:29:36,840
to maybe debate with ray

2344
01:29:41,030 --> 01:29:39,120
stanford over

2345
01:29:43,270 --> 01:29:41,040
socaro but

2346
01:29:45,590 --> 01:29:43,280
he's not inclined to want to go on radio

2347
01:29:47,110 --> 01:29:45,600
shows i guess so that's where it goes

2348
01:29:49,590 --> 01:29:47,120
let's just move back because we're

2349
01:29:54,070 --> 01:29:49,600
covering the early part of the ufo field

2350
01:29:55,270 --> 01:29:54,080
and we'll bring up the r word roswell

2351
01:29:57,510 --> 01:29:55,280
now

2352
01:29:59,430 --> 01:29:57,520
you had met up with somebody

2353
01:30:02,629 --> 01:29:59,440
who might have been

2354
01:30:04,310 --> 01:30:02,639
a possible new witness of the case

2355
01:30:06,550 --> 01:30:04,320
but in general before we go into that

2356
01:30:08,390 --> 01:30:06,560
segment of the book

2357
01:30:10,390 --> 01:30:08,400
and we'll carry this over to our next

2358
01:30:12,390 --> 01:30:10,400
segment

2359
01:30:13,910 --> 01:30:12,400
do you believe that roswell

2360
01:30:15,590 --> 01:30:13,920
represents some kind of unknown

2361
01:30:18,950 --> 01:30:15,600
phenomenon

2362
01:30:20,390 --> 01:30:18,960
was it a test aircraft a balloon

2363
01:30:21,830 --> 01:30:20,400
what do you think we're going to find

2364
01:30:24,629 --> 01:30:21,840
out in our next segment want to remind

2365
01:30:27,350 --> 01:30:24,639
listeners to check out the powercast

2366
01:30:28,709 --> 01:30:27,360
plus at plus.powercast.com

2367
01:30:30,390 --> 01:30:28,719
you get the commercial free version of

2368
01:30:31,990 --> 01:30:30,400
this show the after the powercast

2369
01:30:34,390 --> 01:30:32,000
podcast and more

2370
01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:34,400
with jean and our guest co-host jay

2371
01:30:50,310 --> 01:30:49,230
[Music]

2372
01:30:52,150 --> 01:30:50,320
[Applause]

2373
01:30:53,830 --> 01:30:52,160
thank you for listening to gcn

2374
01:30:57,910 --> 01:30:53,840
[Music]

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[Music]

2473
01:35:10,070 --> 01:35:07,910
hi this is bryce abel i'm the producer

2474
01:35:11,830 --> 01:35:10,080
of dark skies the co-author of ad after

2475
01:35:15,189 --> 01:35:11,840
disclosure and you are listening to the

2476
01:35:16,480 --> 01:35:15,199
paracast the gold standard of paranormal

2477
01:35:24,149 --> 01:35:16,490
radio

2478
01:35:29,030 --> 01:35:27,750
so irena scott what do you think about

2479
01:35:31,350 --> 01:35:29,040
roswell

2480
01:35:33,189 --> 01:35:31,360
well i investigated it from several

2481
01:35:36,229 --> 01:35:33,199
different angles

2482
01:35:38,950 --> 01:35:36,239
and some in mattel too because

2483
01:35:41,350 --> 01:35:38,960
they thought if anything if any material

2484
01:35:43,830 --> 01:35:41,360
went to wright patterson court would go

2485
01:35:46,310 --> 01:35:43,840
would be the telememorance to

2486
01:35:48,149 --> 01:35:46,320
the tail memorial institute is a

2487
01:35:50,310 --> 01:35:48,159
i think it's the largest private

2488
01:35:51,510 --> 01:35:50,320
research institute

2489
01:35:53,270 --> 01:35:51,520
uh they were

2490
01:35:54,470 --> 01:35:53,280
developers of the

2491
01:35:56,229 --> 01:35:54,480
xerox

2492
01:35:57,830 --> 01:35:56,239
and the cd and different things like

2493
01:36:00,149 --> 01:35:57,840
that and they had real good

2494
01:36:02,950 --> 01:36:00,159
metallurgists who worked on the

2495
01:36:05,669 --> 01:36:02,960
manhattan project and they had were

2496
01:36:07,270 --> 01:36:05,679
important in developing the atomic bomb

2497
01:36:09,830 --> 01:36:07,280
and they also

2498
01:36:12,229 --> 01:36:09,840
have been in charge of hanford and oak

2499
01:36:14,709 --> 01:36:12,239
ridge and different places like that

2500
01:36:16,870 --> 01:36:14,719
they're really experts on

2501
01:36:18,870 --> 01:36:16,880
metallurgic and that sort of thing

2502
01:36:20,790 --> 01:36:18,880
when they did the study which you're

2503
01:36:21,910 --> 01:36:20,800
referring to the sr

2504
01:36:24,870 --> 01:36:21,920
14

2505
01:36:28,229 --> 01:36:24,880
what the people they hired the people

2506
01:36:30,070 --> 01:36:28,239
project blue book hired to do this study

2507
01:36:32,070 --> 01:36:30,080
were metallurgists

2508
01:36:34,149 --> 01:36:32,080
and i mean that wasn't the field they

2509
01:36:37,110 --> 01:36:34,159
needed at all they were trying to

2510
01:36:39,510 --> 01:36:37,120
do a statistical study and invented

2511
01:36:40,790 --> 01:36:39,520
questionnaire and so they hired

2512
01:36:43,910 --> 01:36:40,800
metallurgists

2513
01:36:46,709 --> 01:36:43,920
and in battelle from way way back

2514
01:36:48,870 --> 01:36:46,719
before anybody heard of roswell

2515
01:36:51,030 --> 01:36:48,880
there it was strongly in the grapevine

2516
01:36:53,030 --> 01:36:51,040
that everybody's wondering if they were

2517
01:36:55,270 --> 01:36:53,040
looking at artifacts

2518
01:36:58,629 --> 01:36:55,280
because of having the metal urges

2519
01:37:01,189 --> 01:36:58,639
and people went to great trouble with

2520
01:37:02,550 --> 01:37:01,199
questioning them and nobody ever cracked

2521
01:37:03,830 --> 01:37:02,560
as they say

2522
01:37:06,550 --> 01:37:03,840
but um

2523
01:37:08,870 --> 01:37:06,560
i did publish one thing of

2524
01:37:11,750 --> 01:37:08,880
where one of the scientists and he was a

2525
01:37:14,310 --> 01:37:11,760
good scientist he was in the american

2526
01:37:16,390 --> 01:37:14,320
men of science and

2527
01:37:18,629 --> 01:37:16,400
he wrote research papers on

2528
01:37:21,510 --> 01:37:18,639
things that were

2529
01:37:23,430 --> 01:37:21,520
with people about metallurgy

2530
01:37:26,470 --> 01:37:23,440
with people that um

2531
01:37:28,629 --> 01:37:26,480
had been on the blue book study also

2532
01:37:29,590 --> 01:37:28,639
and he told somebody way back in the 50s

2533
01:37:31,189 --> 01:37:29,600
that

2534
01:37:34,870 --> 01:37:31,199
he had studied

2535
01:37:36,709 --> 01:37:34,880
material none of this world and he had

2536
01:37:38,629 --> 01:37:36,719
something like an i-beam with

2537
01:37:40,390 --> 01:37:38,639
hieroglyphics on it

2538
01:37:41,430 --> 01:37:40,400
or some kind of writing he was supposed

2539
01:37:43,750 --> 01:37:41,440
to

2540
01:37:45,750 --> 01:37:43,760
identify and he just come out and said

2541
01:37:48,790 --> 01:37:45,760
he was working on this project

2542
01:37:52,390 --> 01:37:48,800
from something from a different world

2543
01:37:55,430 --> 01:37:52,400
and i published that in 1994

2544
01:37:56,950 --> 01:37:55,440
and then in the book witness to roswell

2545
01:37:59,109 --> 01:37:56,960
they wrote about it

2546
01:38:02,870 --> 01:37:59,119
and then it was all over the internet

2547
01:38:05,510 --> 01:38:02,880
for quite a while about memory metal and

2548
01:38:08,550 --> 01:38:05,520
this person at mattel

2549
01:38:11,350 --> 01:38:08,560
and what i'd uncovered

2550
01:38:12,229 --> 01:38:11,360
and nitronol and all that

2551
01:38:17,830 --> 01:38:12,239
so

2552
01:38:19,189 --> 01:38:17,840
suggested that mattel was

2553
01:38:20,390 --> 01:38:19,199
working on

2554
01:38:23,189 --> 01:38:20,400
something from

2555
01:38:24,790 --> 01:38:23,199
roswell or some kind of extraterrestrial

2556
01:38:27,109 --> 01:38:24,800
material

2557
01:38:28,790 --> 01:38:27,119
and i had reported that

2558
01:38:30,390 --> 01:38:28,800
and there were a number of other things

2559
01:38:33,030 --> 01:38:30,400
that made me think

2560
01:38:35,510 --> 01:38:33,040
something was going on for example

2561
01:38:36,470 --> 01:38:35,520
the government explained it as a mogul

2562
01:38:39,350 --> 01:38:36,480
balloon

2563
01:38:41,350 --> 01:38:39,360
and these were top people

2564
01:38:44,390 --> 01:38:41,360
i mean roswell the

2565
01:38:46,950 --> 01:38:44,400
509th air force division were who

2566
01:38:49,590 --> 01:38:46,960
dropped the bombs on

2567
01:38:51,270 --> 01:38:49,600
japan and they were really top people

2568
01:38:53,669 --> 01:38:51,280
and so you wouldn't think they would

2569
01:38:57,189 --> 01:38:53,679
mistake a balloon

2570
01:38:58,629 --> 01:38:57,199
for a craft from another planet

2571
01:39:01,270 --> 01:38:58,639
and i was just

2572
01:39:03,430 --> 01:39:01,280
investigating from several angles

2573
01:39:06,629 --> 01:39:03,440
but there was no real corroborating

2574
01:39:08,149 --> 01:39:06,639
evidence that that bmi actually did

2575
01:39:10,310 --> 01:39:08,159
have in its possession any of the

2576
01:39:12,390 --> 01:39:10,320
materials this is um

2577
01:39:15,430 --> 01:39:12,400
sort of passed along information

2578
01:39:17,270 --> 01:39:15,440
anecdotal evidence so to speak yeah

2579
01:39:19,669 --> 01:39:17,280
okay so you never ran across any actual

2580
01:39:21,669 --> 01:39:19,679
reports at the institute

2581
01:39:22,950 --> 01:39:21,679
that were documented or anything like

2582
01:39:24,870 --> 01:39:22,960
that

2583
01:39:28,149 --> 01:39:24,880
just the um

2584
01:39:29,910 --> 01:39:28,159
pentagram letter from howard cross

2585
01:39:30,709 --> 01:39:29,920
from mattel

2586
01:39:32,470 --> 01:39:30,719
where

2587
01:39:36,229 --> 01:39:32,480
i mean he just said that they were

2588
01:39:37,910 --> 01:39:36,239
working on ufos and developing studies

2589
01:39:40,390 --> 01:39:37,920
but um

2590
01:39:42,709 --> 01:39:40,400
i mean that's pretty hardcore evidence

2591
01:39:44,229 --> 01:39:42,719
that was reported a long time ago

2592
01:39:46,070 --> 01:39:44,239
and um

2593
01:39:47,669 --> 01:39:46,080
one thing i would say is hard evidence

2594
01:39:49,669 --> 01:39:47,679
is that

2595
01:39:51,510 --> 01:39:49,679
they were giving a

2596
01:39:53,590 --> 01:39:51,520
radio broadcast

2597
01:39:56,870 --> 01:39:53,600
from roswell

2598
01:39:58,550 --> 01:39:56,880
while the airplane was taking material

2599
01:39:59,910 --> 01:39:58,560
to wright patterson

2600
01:40:02,070 --> 01:39:59,920
and the

2601
01:40:04,629 --> 01:40:02,080
announcer stopped right in the middle

2602
01:40:06,310 --> 01:40:04,639
and said he had called wright patterson

2603
01:40:08,550 --> 01:40:06,320
and they were expecting the airplane to

2604
01:40:11,030 --> 01:40:08,560
come in any minute and i'd say that's

2605
01:40:12,550 --> 01:40:11,040
pretty good evidence that something was

2606
01:40:15,430 --> 01:40:12,560
sent from

2607
01:40:17,270 --> 01:40:15,440
roswell to wright patterson

2608
01:40:19,910 --> 01:40:17,280
oh sure yeah i think that there's a

2609
01:40:21,830 --> 01:40:19,920
number of things about roswell that that

2610
01:40:23,590 --> 01:40:21,840
we can safely assume that something did

2611
01:40:24,390 --> 01:40:23,600
happen that some materials were picked

2612
01:40:26,870 --> 01:40:24,400
up

2613
01:40:29,189 --> 01:40:26,880
and that they were

2614
01:40:31,030 --> 01:40:29,199
shipped off and studied some place

2615
01:40:33,830 --> 01:40:31,040
it also doesn't seem reasonable that it

2616
01:40:35,910 --> 01:40:33,840
was a mogul balloon or a weather balloon

2617
01:40:37,669 --> 01:40:35,920
and but apart from that i mean we really

2618
01:40:39,830 --> 01:40:37,679
don't know what it was and the rest is

2619
01:40:41,510 --> 01:40:39,840
sort of urban myth so

2620
01:40:43,350 --> 01:40:41,520
uh

2621
01:40:44,310 --> 01:40:43,360
it's

2622
01:40:47,030 --> 01:40:44,320
um

2623
01:40:49,270 --> 01:40:47,040
nobody actually saw the ship crash or

2624
01:40:50,790 --> 01:40:49,280
saw a ship itself

2625
01:40:53,270 --> 01:40:50,800
you know in in the process of this

2626
01:40:54,870 --> 01:40:53,280
there's a bunch of materials and

2627
01:40:57,669 --> 01:40:54,880
so

2628
01:40:59,830 --> 01:40:57,679
i'm not sure that we can really take

2629
01:41:01,910 --> 01:40:59,840
roswell as to be the smoking gun we

2630
01:41:03,990 --> 01:41:01,920
maybe once thought it was

2631
01:41:06,229 --> 01:41:04,000
yeah it was funny though because i mean

2632
01:41:07,830 --> 01:41:06,239
i'm not saying you know that's true or

2633
01:41:09,189 --> 01:41:07,840
not true i'm just

2634
01:41:11,270 --> 01:41:09,199
listening things

2635
01:41:13,430 --> 01:41:11,280
but i talked to the

2636
01:41:16,229 --> 01:41:13,440
daughter of

2637
01:41:17,350 --> 01:41:16,239
howat who was the announcer that

2638
01:41:20,870 --> 01:41:17,360
announced

2639
01:41:23,109 --> 01:41:20,880
the they had found a flying disc

2640
01:41:24,870 --> 01:41:23,119
and she said that the higher-ups had

2641
01:41:26,149 --> 01:41:24,880
told him to announce that

2642
01:41:27,270 --> 01:41:26,159
and then later

2643
01:41:29,270 --> 01:41:27,280
they said

2644
01:41:30,950 --> 01:41:29,280
take it back that there was no christ or

2645
01:41:32,950 --> 01:41:30,960
no disc or anything

2646
01:41:34,629 --> 01:41:32,960
and that seemed a little bit fishy too

2647
01:41:37,510 --> 01:41:34,639
so i just don't know

2648
01:41:39,669 --> 01:41:37,520
you know stan friedman he's um he was

2649
01:41:42,149 --> 01:41:39,679
right in on those investigations back at

2650
01:41:44,070 --> 01:41:42,159
the beginning and uh

2651
01:41:46,550 --> 01:41:44,080
what do you think about the whole mj 12

2652
01:41:48,950 --> 01:41:46,560
affair do you do you think that there

2653
01:41:51,669 --> 01:41:48,960
was such a thing and

2654
01:41:54,709 --> 01:41:51,679
and what do you make of the documents

2655
01:41:58,229 --> 01:41:56,310
i had worked for the government and i

2656
01:41:59,270 --> 01:41:58,239
saw real documents

2657
01:42:00,950 --> 01:41:59,280
and

2658
01:42:02,790 --> 01:42:00,960
with the mj12

2659
01:42:05,430 --> 01:42:02,800
i mean i i'm not a professional

2660
01:42:06,870 --> 01:42:05,440
ufologist i worked in science my whole

2661
01:42:07,669 --> 01:42:06,880
life

2662
01:42:10,149 --> 01:42:07,679
and

2663
01:42:11,669 --> 01:42:10,159
so i didn't have vast amounts of time to

2664
01:42:15,030 --> 01:42:11,679
study things

2665
01:42:17,510 --> 01:42:15,040
but i couldn't find any i mean the um

2666
01:42:19,830 --> 01:42:17,520
mj 12 are purported to be

2667
01:42:22,310 --> 01:42:19,840
government documents that are leaked

2668
01:42:23,669 --> 01:42:22,320
but i couldn't find any evidence at all

2669
01:42:25,830 --> 01:42:23,679
where you can trace them back to the

2670
01:42:27,350 --> 01:42:25,840
government so i just never paid too much

2671
01:42:29,750 --> 01:42:27,360
attention to them

2672
01:42:31,510 --> 01:42:29,760
the last one that came out was

2673
01:42:35,669 --> 01:42:31,520
i think it was came out around the first

2674
01:42:37,590 --> 01:42:35,679
of june it's an mj12 paper that

2675
01:42:40,709 --> 01:42:37,600
said it was from the dia

2676
01:42:43,189 --> 01:42:40,719
and talked about this living alien

2677
01:42:45,189 --> 01:42:43,199
like strawberry ice cream and everything

2678
01:42:48,950 --> 01:42:45,199
which i had heard before

2679
01:42:50,629 --> 01:42:48,960
but it just impressed me as rather fake

2680
01:42:52,629 --> 01:42:50,639
that's the curious thing

2681
01:42:54,310 --> 01:42:52,639
with me that i find i mean either this

2682
01:42:56,790 --> 01:42:54,320
was a really clever

2683
01:42:58,950 --> 01:42:56,800
hoax by somebody that

2684
01:43:00,470 --> 01:42:58,960
friedman became affiliated with perhaps

2685
01:43:02,550 --> 01:43:00,480
unknowingly

2686
01:43:04,070 --> 01:43:02,560
you know almost brilliant as an idea to

2687
01:43:05,669 --> 01:43:04,080
perhaps shake the tree and see if

2688
01:43:07,510 --> 01:43:05,679
something shakes out

2689
01:43:10,470 --> 01:43:07,520
or what we've got

2690
01:43:12,470 --> 01:43:10,480
is people preparing these documents who

2691
01:43:14,550 --> 01:43:12,480
we don't know who they are actually

2692
01:43:15,590 --> 01:43:14,560
going into the

2693
01:43:21,750 --> 01:43:15,600
the

2694
01:43:23,430 --> 01:43:21,760
so it's like somebody's going to real

2695
01:43:25,270 --> 01:43:23,440
great length

2696
01:43:26,950 --> 01:43:25,280
to

2697
01:43:28,950 --> 01:43:26,960
put information out there that would

2698
01:43:31,270 --> 01:43:28,960
make us think that well no nothing

2699
01:43:35,109 --> 01:43:31,280
really happened and so maybe that in

2700
01:43:38,310 --> 01:43:35,119
itself is kind of suspicious i mean

2701
01:43:40,629 --> 01:43:38,320
it's suspicious because somebody went to

2702
01:43:42,550 --> 01:43:40,639
a lot of trouble to check things out and

2703
01:43:45,030 --> 01:43:42,560
get the reports right

2704
01:43:47,430 --> 01:43:45,040
i don't think it would be too hard to

2705
01:43:49,510 --> 01:43:47,440
get the font and everything on

2706
01:43:51,430 --> 01:43:49,520
everything like that on the documents

2707
01:43:54,149 --> 01:43:51,440
but the information in them i think

2708
01:43:57,030 --> 01:43:54,159
would be very difficult and it's

2709
01:43:57,990 --> 01:43:57,040
somebody went to a lot of trouble to do

2710
01:44:00,470 --> 01:43:58,000
that

2711
01:44:02,390 --> 01:44:00,480
and nobody's come out to say well it was

2712
01:44:04,629 --> 01:44:02,400
me this shows how gullible ufo

2713
01:44:07,510 --> 01:44:04,639
researchers are i mean there have been

2714
01:44:09,270 --> 01:44:07,520
hoaxes planted by skeptics in the past

2715
01:44:10,390 --> 01:44:09,280
but nobody's come out to say yeah yeah

2716
01:44:11,990 --> 01:44:10,400
it was us

2717
01:44:14,790 --> 01:44:12,000
you know we went in and we did it this

2718
01:44:16,790 --> 01:44:14,800
just shows how easily it can all be fake

2719
01:44:19,590 --> 01:44:16,800
in instead

2720
01:44:21,510 --> 01:44:19,600
nothing i mean the whole thing is really

2721
01:44:23,510 --> 01:44:21,520
quite curious

2722
01:44:26,470 --> 01:44:23,520
and friedman still believes i believe

2723
01:44:27,990 --> 01:44:26,480
that one document is genuine and that he

2724
01:44:29,750 --> 01:44:28,000
sort of suggested the rest have been

2725
01:44:33,030 --> 01:44:29,760
just kind of a smoke screen

2726
01:44:35,669 --> 01:44:33,040
put out there by these sort of unseen

2727
01:44:38,310 --> 01:44:35,679
people who who knows who exactly they

2728
01:44:41,030 --> 01:44:38,320
work for if they work for anyone

2729
01:44:43,590 --> 01:44:41,040
well yeah part of that hoax was due to

2730
01:44:45,430 --> 01:44:43,600
two people condor and falcon they were

2731
01:44:47,990 --> 01:44:45,440
called and they were

2732
01:44:51,030 --> 01:44:48,000
i think it was ufo live or something a

2733
01:44:54,870 --> 01:44:51,040
tv show in the ninth late 1980s

2734
01:44:57,430 --> 01:44:54,880
that convinced that just um looked like

2735
01:44:59,030 --> 01:44:57,440
a real government

2736
01:44:59,910 --> 01:44:59,040
something real the government was

2737
01:45:01,750 --> 01:44:59,920
showing

2738
01:45:02,950 --> 01:45:01,760
and one time when i was at wright

2739
01:45:05,189 --> 01:45:02,960
patterson

2740
01:45:07,750 --> 01:45:05,199
i was sent by my employer

2741
01:45:10,229 --> 01:45:07,760
but i stopped by the skyrider

2742
01:45:13,910 --> 01:45:10,239
which is the wright-patterson newspaper

2743
01:45:16,790 --> 01:45:13,920
and put out an ad asking for informants

2744
01:45:17,910 --> 01:45:16,800
which i didn't expect to find but anyway

2745
01:45:19,430 --> 01:45:17,920
um

2746
01:45:22,310 --> 01:45:19,440
but i did

2747
01:45:23,430 --> 01:45:22,320
and the person that answered

2748
01:45:25,510 --> 01:45:23,440
was called

2749
01:45:26,629 --> 01:45:25,520
uh bob collins

2750
01:45:29,189 --> 01:45:26,639
with jean

2751
01:45:40,310 --> 01:45:29,199
and with jay randall murphy we continue

2752
01:45:47,830 --> 01:45:43,990
thank you for listening to gcn

2753
01:45:50,149 --> 01:45:47,840
sure to visit gcnlive.com today

2754
01:45:53,430 --> 01:45:50,159
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2756
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2757
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2760
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2761
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2762
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2764
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2765
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2766
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2773
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2788
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2789
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2791
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lie no one can prevent identity theft no

2792
01:47:29,669 --> 01:47:27,000
one go to

2793
01:47:32,709 --> 01:47:29,679
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2794
01:47:35,189 --> 01:47:32,719
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2795
01:47:37,430 --> 01:47:35,199
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2796
01:47:39,910 --> 01:47:37,440
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2797
01:47:42,070 --> 01:47:39,920
liberty id fixes the fallout for you

2798
01:47:45,030 --> 01:47:42,080
liberty id does all the work but you

2799
01:47:56,550 --> 01:47:45,040
have to be prepared go to libertyid.com

2800
01:48:03,430 --> 01:47:59,750
welcome back to the paracast the gold

2801
01:48:04,709 --> 01:48:03,440
standard of paranormal radio

2802
01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:04,719
and now

2803
01:48:11,990 --> 01:48:08,010
here's jane steinberg

2804
01:48:17,430 --> 01:48:15,109
we have dr irena scott

2805
01:48:18,550 --> 01:48:17,440
and gene steinberg and jay randall

2806
01:48:20,629 --> 01:48:18,560
murphy

2807
01:48:22,149 --> 01:48:20,639
our usual co-host of course chris

2808
01:48:24,790 --> 01:48:22,159
o'brien he's

2809
01:48:27,430 --> 01:48:24,800
offline and was not expected to get his

2810
01:48:30,709 --> 01:48:27,440
internet back till later today

2811
01:48:32,950 --> 01:48:30,719
i think the silence group is after him

2812
01:48:35,030 --> 01:48:32,960
irena you start to talk about someone

2813
01:48:36,550 --> 01:48:35,040
named bob collins

2814
01:48:37,669 --> 01:48:36,560
someone whom we've heard of go ahead

2815
01:48:41,750 --> 01:48:37,679
please

2816
01:48:43,430 --> 01:48:41,760
yeah he was identified as condor

2817
01:48:45,350 --> 01:48:43,440
in the program and he worked with a

2818
01:48:47,189 --> 01:48:45,360
person named falcon

2819
01:48:49,590 --> 01:48:47,199
and falcon was

2820
01:48:50,790 --> 01:48:49,600
oh i forget well they were part of that

2821
01:48:51,750 --> 01:48:50,800
aviary

2822
01:48:53,350 --> 01:48:51,760
group

2823
01:48:56,229 --> 01:48:53,360
yeah

2824
01:48:58,149 --> 01:48:56,239
if falcon was somebody that was

2825
01:49:00,629 --> 01:48:58,159
working for the government

2826
01:49:01,990 --> 01:49:00,639
and i can't remember his name right now

2827
01:49:03,590 --> 01:49:02,000
um

2828
01:49:06,390 --> 01:49:03,600
yeah dodie

2829
01:49:09,030 --> 01:49:06,400
dodie is a pretty wacky character and

2830
01:49:11,270 --> 01:49:09,040
doesn't carry a lot of credibility

2831
01:49:13,910 --> 01:49:11,280
we've tried to get on the power cast bob

2832
01:49:17,510 --> 01:49:13,920
collins was on one of her early episodes

2833
01:49:20,470 --> 01:49:17,520
and dodie kept saying no no no no no

2834
01:49:23,270 --> 01:49:20,480
but this is the kind of group of people

2835
01:49:25,910 --> 01:49:23,280
you think bob collins richard doty may

2836
01:49:27,510 --> 01:49:25,920
have been responsible for things like mj

2837
01:49:29,910 --> 01:49:27,520
12.

2838
01:49:31,669 --> 01:49:29,920
yeah i think they had ties to that

2839
01:49:33,350 --> 01:49:31,679
and they

2840
01:49:35,109 --> 01:49:33,360
are like

2841
01:49:35,910 --> 01:49:35,119
especially doty

2842
01:49:39,830 --> 01:49:35,920
were

2843
01:49:41,669 --> 01:49:39,840
information to people

2844
01:49:44,870 --> 01:49:41,679
and dodie had given

2845
01:49:46,390 --> 01:49:44,880
that information to several people

2846
01:49:48,870 --> 01:49:46,400
and

2847
01:49:51,109 --> 01:49:48,880
you don't know exactly what their

2848
01:49:54,070 --> 01:49:51,119
contacts of the government were

2849
01:49:57,590 --> 01:49:54,080
and dodi was presented as being somebody

2850
01:49:59,830 --> 01:49:57,600
high in the government that was leaking

2851
01:50:01,830 --> 01:49:59,840
which yeah if you could believe him he's

2852
01:50:03,030 --> 01:50:01,840
gone on record saying that he actually

2853
01:50:04,470 --> 01:50:03,040
paid people

2854
01:50:06,709 --> 01:50:04,480
to uh

2855
01:50:09,510 --> 01:50:06,719
put out disinformation

2856
01:50:11,030 --> 01:50:09,520
yeah so i met collins and at the time i

2857
01:50:13,669 --> 01:50:11,040
was talking to him i didn't know who he

2858
01:50:14,709 --> 01:50:13,679
was and didn't know about condor or

2859
01:50:17,030 --> 01:50:14,719
anything

2860
01:50:19,430 --> 01:50:17,040
but he had a lot of information that was

2861
01:50:21,350 --> 01:50:19,440
just like that about the

2862
01:50:23,830 --> 01:50:21,360
about what dodie had done

2863
01:50:26,709 --> 01:50:23,840
and about

2864
01:50:30,709 --> 01:50:26,719
had given bad information to

2865
01:50:33,430 --> 01:50:30,719
benowitz who was a physicist

2866
01:50:34,470 --> 01:50:33,440
and they gave so like he was

2867
01:50:37,189 --> 01:50:34,480
kind of

2868
01:50:39,270 --> 01:50:37,199
exploring ufos and

2869
01:50:42,310 --> 01:50:39,280
they gave so much bad information to him

2870
01:50:44,149 --> 01:50:42,320
they kind of had a nervous breakdown

2871
01:50:46,310 --> 01:50:44,159
right we

2872
01:50:48,709 --> 01:50:46,320
had a guest on a few times on the show

2873
01:50:51,189 --> 01:50:48,719
one of our friends greg bishop

2874
01:50:53,510 --> 01:50:51,199
who wrote the book project beta

2875
01:50:56,149 --> 01:50:53,520
which tells in large part about benowitz

2876
01:50:58,390 --> 01:50:56,159
so he is the go-to guy for that

2877
01:51:00,070 --> 01:50:58,400
well that was a pretty good example of

2878
01:51:02,149 --> 01:51:00,080
the government deliberately giving

2879
01:51:04,950 --> 01:51:02,159
people bad information

2880
01:51:06,709 --> 01:51:04,960
so they were tied with the mj-12

2881
01:51:09,910 --> 01:51:06,719
and like

2882
01:51:12,470 --> 01:51:09,920
collins told us all about this

2883
01:51:14,149 --> 01:51:12,480
uh alien that lived with

2884
01:51:15,750 --> 01:51:14,159
one of the people and that likes the

2885
01:51:18,790 --> 01:51:15,760
strawberry ice cream and everything

2886
01:51:21,350 --> 01:51:18,800
which kind of came from the mj-12

2887
01:51:24,310 --> 01:51:21,360
and so i thought people like them were

2888
01:51:25,109 --> 01:51:24,320
tied in with the mj-12

2889
01:51:28,470 --> 01:51:25,119
and

2890
01:51:31,030 --> 01:51:28,480
the history of the mj-12 esport

2891
01:51:33,030 --> 01:51:31,040
it kind of started out as a fake thing

2892
01:51:35,510 --> 01:51:33,040
to start with way back

2893
01:51:37,990 --> 01:51:35,520
where they were writing a book affection

2894
01:51:39,030 --> 01:51:38,000
book and that kind of turned out more

2895
01:51:41,350 --> 01:51:39,040
and more

2896
01:51:43,030 --> 01:51:41,360
where they presented as actual leaks

2897
01:51:44,470 --> 01:51:43,040
from the government

2898
01:51:45,910 --> 01:51:44,480
well this is certainly something that

2899
01:51:47,669 --> 01:51:45,920
was interesting this

2900
01:51:49,830 --> 01:51:47,679
alien who likes strawberry ice cream

2901
01:51:52,629 --> 01:51:49,840
that came out of a new

2902
01:51:54,950 --> 01:51:52,639
round of mj 12 documents

2903
01:51:56,229 --> 01:51:54,960
that was presented online a couple of

2904
01:51:58,470 --> 01:51:56,239
months back

2905
01:51:59,990 --> 01:51:58,480
and that one was taking the aztec new

2906
01:52:01,990 --> 01:52:00,000
mexico crash

2907
01:52:04,709 --> 01:52:02,000
seriously and that's something that i

2908
01:52:06,709 --> 01:52:04,719
think most of us have determined has no

2909
01:52:10,070 --> 01:52:06,719
reality to it or do you have a different

2910
01:52:11,430 --> 01:52:10,080
opinion do you write at all about aztec

2911
01:52:13,990 --> 01:52:11,440
no

2912
01:52:16,629 --> 01:52:14,000
i covered different things about roswell

2913
01:52:18,470 --> 01:52:16,639
but i don't think i covered aztec or

2914
01:52:20,470 --> 01:52:18,480
maybe i just mentioned it i wrote about

2915
01:52:23,750 --> 01:52:20,480
columns though

2916
01:52:26,310 --> 01:52:23,760
and some of the things he told us

2917
01:52:28,070 --> 01:52:26,320
yeah that's all really interesting

2918
01:52:30,390 --> 01:52:28,080
information that uh and so you'd

2919
01:52:32,229 --> 01:52:30,400
actually had some contact with this

2920
01:52:34,950 --> 01:52:32,239
aviary group yourself while you were

2921
01:52:37,109 --> 01:52:34,960
employed uh with the department

2922
01:52:38,950 --> 01:52:37,119
so that's pretty interesting and you

2923
01:52:40,470 --> 01:52:38,960
know i i just find it fascinating that

2924
01:52:42,149 --> 01:52:40,480
well that we can determine well

2925
01:52:44,629 --> 01:52:42,159
something did happen at roswell we don't

2926
01:52:45,910 --> 01:52:44,639
know what and then this whole convoluted

2927
01:52:46,870 --> 01:52:45,920
mj12

2928
01:52:49,270 --> 01:52:46,880
affair

2929
01:52:52,149 --> 01:52:49,280
kind of manifests itself

2930
01:52:54,790 --> 01:52:52,159
out of these shadowy figures that are

2931
01:52:56,629 --> 01:52:54,800
sort of connected with both sides of the

2932
01:52:59,669 --> 01:52:56,639
of the story it's

2933
01:53:01,990 --> 01:52:59,679
it's really to me it speaks

2934
01:53:04,149 --> 01:53:02,000
to the possibility that there really is

2935
01:53:06,390 --> 01:53:04,159
more going on there than what they're

2936
01:53:08,229 --> 01:53:06,400
saying i mean the mogul balloon cover-up

2937
01:53:09,510 --> 01:53:08,239
that's obviously been debunked as well

2938
01:53:14,149 --> 01:53:09,520
so

2939
01:53:16,950 --> 01:53:14,159
it was necessarily an alien craft but

2940
01:53:18,709 --> 01:53:16,960
definitely something was going on

2941
01:53:20,790 --> 01:53:18,719
yes and

2942
01:53:21,910 --> 01:53:20,800
the suggestion it was something pretty

2943
01:53:24,310 --> 01:53:21,920
odd

2944
01:53:27,189 --> 01:53:24,320
but i don't think there's

2945
01:53:28,310 --> 01:53:27,199
concrete proof except that that phone

2946
01:53:31,189 --> 01:53:28,320
call that

2947
01:53:34,310 --> 01:53:31,199
radio announcer that seemed pretty

2948
01:53:36,390 --> 01:53:34,320
um hard like hard evidence

2949
01:53:38,870 --> 01:53:36,400
no and also with uh

2950
01:53:40,550 --> 01:53:38,880
stan if uh if we could maybe switch

2951
01:53:43,189 --> 01:53:40,560
subjects i mean you

2952
01:53:45,270 --> 01:53:43,199
say you've taken an astronomy course

2953
01:53:47,270 --> 01:53:45,280
and uh just recently i was listening to

2954
01:53:49,830 --> 01:53:47,280
stan and he's still kind of going on

2955
01:53:52,470 --> 01:53:49,840
about the whole zeta reticuli

2956
01:53:55,669 --> 01:53:52,480
thing even though it seems like amongst

2957
01:53:57,990 --> 01:53:55,679
astronomers that that whole star map and

2958
01:53:59,589 --> 01:53:58,000
uh zeta reticuli

2959
01:54:01,669 --> 01:53:59,599
thing has been pretty much debunked

2960
01:54:03,830 --> 01:54:01,679
what's your take on that

2961
01:54:06,629 --> 01:54:03,840
that's the one from

2962
01:54:07,750 --> 01:54:06,639
uh betty and barnhill

2963
01:54:09,910 --> 01:54:07,760
that's right you have the betty and

2964
01:54:12,070 --> 01:54:09,920
bernie hill star map and this is the one

2965
01:54:13,830 --> 01:54:12,080
that was drawn out by a schoolteacher

2966
01:54:16,870 --> 01:54:13,840
marjorie fish

2967
01:54:19,510 --> 01:54:17,830
yeah

2968
01:54:21,910 --> 01:54:19,520
um

2969
01:54:23,990 --> 01:54:21,920
i was i was i know one of the people

2970
01:54:27,669 --> 01:54:24,000
that analyzed some of that

2971
01:54:29,910 --> 01:54:27,679
and what she analyzed uh using she's a

2972
01:54:32,550 --> 01:54:29,920
scientist with a laboratory

2973
01:54:34,229 --> 01:54:32,560
and she analyzed um

2974
01:54:35,109 --> 01:54:34,239
betty hill's dress

2975
01:54:39,830 --> 01:54:35,119
from

2976
01:54:42,149 --> 01:54:39,840
she'd been abducted

2977
01:54:43,589 --> 01:54:42,159
and the woman analyzed

2978
01:54:45,270 --> 01:54:43,599
um

2979
01:54:48,310 --> 01:54:45,280
her dress

2980
01:54:50,709 --> 01:54:48,320
and it was a blue dress

2981
01:54:54,709 --> 01:54:50,719
but there were pink areas on it

2982
01:54:57,270 --> 01:54:54,719
and the pink areas were similar to where

2983
01:54:58,310 --> 01:54:57,280
she reported that the aliens had touched

2984
01:55:04,470 --> 01:54:58,320
her

2985
01:55:06,950 --> 01:55:04,480
some kind of alien um

2986
01:55:08,229 --> 01:55:06,960
molecules or atoms or something on the

2987
01:55:10,390 --> 01:55:08,239
dress

2988
01:55:12,870 --> 01:55:10,400
and she analyzed it and said

2989
01:55:16,070 --> 01:55:12,880
there was more protein i think

2990
01:55:17,589 --> 01:55:16,080
in the areas that turn pink

2991
01:55:20,149 --> 01:55:17,599
and that was

2992
01:55:22,070 --> 01:55:20,159
um i guess her dress was torn too that

2993
01:55:23,990 --> 01:55:22,080
sort of made me think that maybe there

2994
01:55:25,189 --> 01:55:24,000
was some reality to that

2995
01:55:27,669 --> 01:55:25,199
i mean

2996
01:55:29,189 --> 01:55:27,679
it seemed like there was

2997
01:55:34,229 --> 01:55:29,199
but um

2998
01:55:40,070 --> 01:55:38,550
betty hill reported the star map

2999
01:55:42,550 --> 01:55:40,080
and

3000
01:55:45,589 --> 01:55:42,560
i don't know

3001
01:55:49,189 --> 01:55:47,030
you know what i really like about you is

3002
01:55:51,669 --> 01:55:49,199
you actually say you don't know

3003
01:55:53,270 --> 01:55:51,679
because so many people will just go on

3004
01:55:56,149 --> 01:55:53,280
and on with their own

3005
01:55:58,470 --> 01:55:56,159
wants and beliefs and wishful thinking

3006
01:56:01,030 --> 01:55:58,480
and uh it's actually kind of refreshing

3007
01:56:02,790 --> 01:56:01,040
to hear someone say well i just don't

3008
01:56:03,750 --> 01:56:02,800
know

3009
01:56:05,350 --> 01:56:03,760
so

3010
01:56:07,510 --> 01:56:05,360
don't be worried about that that's

3011
01:56:10,070 --> 01:56:07,520
actually quite good

3012
01:56:12,470 --> 01:56:10,080
well i don't and that's

3013
01:56:15,189 --> 01:56:12,480
i know everybody else has opinions and

3014
01:56:18,390 --> 01:56:15,199
i'm kind of lacking opinions

3015
01:56:20,790 --> 01:56:18,400
i'm not a dramatic speaker

3016
01:56:21,510 --> 01:56:20,800
but that seemed a little more concrete

3017
01:56:24,229 --> 01:56:21,520
than

3018
01:56:25,430 --> 01:56:24,239
lots of things but with a star map i

3019
01:56:26,790 --> 01:56:25,440
don't know because i think they went

3020
01:56:29,030 --> 01:56:26,800
over

3021
01:56:31,109 --> 01:56:29,040
i she made the actual model and went to

3022
01:56:32,550 --> 01:56:31,119
a lot of trouble then when they invented

3023
01:56:35,109 --> 01:56:32,560
computers

3024
01:56:37,109 --> 01:56:35,119
they looked at the same information from

3025
01:56:39,750 --> 01:56:37,119
different angles but i don't think they

3026
01:56:42,070 --> 01:56:39,760
totally disapproved what she did

3027
01:56:43,830 --> 01:56:42,080
well apparently the stars are in a

3028
01:56:45,910 --> 01:56:43,840
different position

3029
01:56:47,430 --> 01:56:45,920
than she was using kind of outdated

3030
01:56:51,189 --> 01:56:47,440
information

3031
01:56:53,350 --> 01:56:51,199
itself

3032
01:56:56,390 --> 01:56:53,360
was unreliable at the time so even if it

3033
01:56:58,149 --> 01:56:56,400
just happened to coincide with what

3034
01:56:59,750 --> 01:56:58,159
seemed to be the information at the time

3035
01:57:02,149 --> 01:56:59,760
that information has now since been

3036
01:57:04,149 --> 01:57:02,159
changed with better measurements

3037
01:57:05,750 --> 01:57:04,159
so the stars aren't really in those

3038
01:57:07,270 --> 01:57:05,760
positions

3039
01:57:08,470 --> 01:57:07,280
and uh

3040
01:57:10,149 --> 01:57:08,480
the uh

3041
01:57:11,750 --> 01:57:10,159
they're too close to each other really

3042
01:57:14,709 --> 01:57:11,760
to be

3043
01:57:16,149 --> 01:57:14,719
um just to support stable planets is

3044
01:57:18,550 --> 01:57:16,159
another thing that they say and no

3045
01:57:20,790 --> 01:57:18,560
planets around those stars have been

3046
01:57:22,629 --> 01:57:20,800
discovered none

3047
01:57:25,669 --> 01:57:22,639
let's break it here randall

3048
01:57:27,109 --> 01:57:25,679
we'll go into more of zeta verticuli

3049
01:57:29,589 --> 01:57:27,119
where all those

3050
01:57:31,750 --> 01:57:29,599
alien channelers

3051
01:57:35,109 --> 01:57:31,760
originate from i guess

3052
01:57:40,870 --> 01:57:35,119
dr irina scott with gene and randall

3053
01:57:49,510 --> 01:57:47,430
[Music]

3054
01:57:50,470 --> 01:57:49,520
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3056
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3059
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3062
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3064
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3065
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3066
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expensive than that other app that you

3067
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3068
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3069
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3070
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3071
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so write this down to learn about

3072
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graphic converter

3073
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go to www dot

3074
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lemkesoft dot d e slash gene

3075
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let me spell that

3076
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3077
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3078
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3079
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3080
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3081
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detected by you but the symptoms are

3082
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3083
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3084
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heartbeat are just a few of these that

3085
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3086
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hear how heart and body extract is

3087
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3089
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3090
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3091
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3093
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3094
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3095
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3096
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3097
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3098
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3099
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3100
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3101
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3107
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3108
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3110
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3112
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3113
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3115
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3119
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3127
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3128
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3129
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3131
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3132
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3134
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3140
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3141
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fivestarsoap.com or call

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3145
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3147
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3148
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3149
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only organs that require a healthy

3150
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vascular system for proper blood flow at

3151
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3152
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that's

3153
02:01:55,510 --> 02:01:53,030
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

3154
02:01:59,030 --> 02:01:55,520
comment or question about the paracast

3155
02:02:02,310 --> 02:01:59,040
send it to news at theparecast.com

3156
02:02:04,149 --> 02:02:02,320
that's news at theparecast.com

3157
02:02:06,550 --> 02:02:04,159
and don't forget to visit our famous

3158
02:02:11,030 --> 02:02:06,560
paracast community forums at

3159
02:02:11,040 --> 02:02:16,430
please check

3160
02:02:20,149 --> 02:02:17,510
plus.powercast.complus.thepowercast.com

3161
02:02:21,750 --> 02:02:20,159
for information about the powercast plus

3162
02:02:24,790 --> 02:02:21,760
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3163
02:02:26,550 --> 02:02:24,800
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3164
02:02:29,270 --> 02:02:26,560
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3165
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3166
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3167
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3170
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3172
02:02:50,470 --> 02:02:48,229
irina scott is here

3173
02:02:53,109 --> 02:02:50,480
and we're talking about her book

3174
02:02:54,550 --> 02:02:53,119
on ufos today exploring of course

3175
02:02:56,950 --> 02:02:54,560
all the issues

3176
02:02:58,149 --> 02:02:56,960
with regard to a cover-up now in terms

3177
02:03:00,070 --> 02:02:58,159
of roswell

3178
02:03:02,229 --> 02:03:00,080
you would produce somebody in the book

3179
02:03:03,990 --> 02:03:02,239
that you quote who may have been a

3180
02:03:05,750 --> 02:03:04,000
witness or may not have been a witness

3181
02:03:08,790 --> 02:03:05,760
what's the story about that

3182
02:03:10,790 --> 02:03:08,800
the information came to my publisher

3183
02:03:11,430 --> 02:03:10,800
and we were figuring out what to do with

3184
02:03:18,390 --> 02:03:11,440
it

3185
02:03:21,350 --> 02:03:18,400
was information and so we

3186
02:03:22,550 --> 02:03:21,360
published just put in a public domain

3187
02:03:24,470 --> 02:03:22,560
and this was

3188
02:03:25,430 --> 02:03:24,480
deputy sheriff

3189
02:03:26,709 --> 02:03:25,440
named

3190
02:03:29,830 --> 02:03:26,719
fergus

3191
02:03:32,629 --> 02:03:29,840
who lived in big springs texas

3192
02:03:34,149 --> 02:03:32,639
and he went with his sheriff

3193
02:03:36,390 --> 02:03:34,159
to roswell

3194
02:03:38,709 --> 02:03:36,400
to pick up a prisoner and on the way

3195
02:03:39,750 --> 02:03:38,719
they heard on the radio

3196
02:03:41,270 --> 02:03:39,760
that

3197
02:03:43,109 --> 02:03:41,280
there was a crash

3198
02:03:44,709 --> 02:03:43,119
and so you know they probably were

3199
02:03:46,870 --> 02:03:44,719
familiar with the roads

3200
02:03:49,669 --> 02:03:46,880
and went to where the crash was

3201
02:03:52,310 --> 02:03:49,679
and he said he saw an object that was

3202
02:03:53,830 --> 02:03:52,320
100 feet across approximately perfectly

3203
02:03:57,350 --> 02:03:53,840
round

3204
02:03:58,870 --> 02:03:57,360
and four bodies being loaded with a lift

3205
02:04:00,950 --> 02:03:58,880
onto a truck

3206
02:04:02,390 --> 02:04:00,960
and they were told to leave

3207
02:04:03,830 --> 02:04:02,400
and so they left

3208
02:04:06,149 --> 02:04:03,840
and they didn't talk about too much

3209
02:04:07,830 --> 02:04:06,159
later because apparently nobody heard

3210
02:04:08,709 --> 02:04:07,840
roswell at the time

3211
02:04:10,550 --> 02:04:08,719
and so

3212
02:04:12,790 --> 02:04:10,560
that's what we had

3213
02:04:14,629 --> 02:04:12,800
and we decided to publish it

3214
02:04:16,629 --> 02:04:14,639
but we're not saying it proves or

3215
02:04:19,270 --> 02:04:16,639
disapproves anything we're just

3216
02:04:21,270 --> 02:04:19,280
kind of fishing for more information

3217
02:04:24,310 --> 02:04:21,280
now i know there's a suggestion here

3218
02:04:27,669 --> 02:04:24,320
that this may not have happened during

3219
02:04:29,750 --> 02:04:27,679
1947 but happened in 1953.

3220
02:04:30,790 --> 02:04:29,760
well i checked the papers the local

3221
02:04:33,030 --> 02:04:30,800
papers

3222
02:04:34,070 --> 02:04:33,040
from big springs

3223
02:04:35,109 --> 02:04:34,080
well the

3224
02:04:36,390 --> 02:04:35,119
sheriff

3225
02:04:38,550 --> 02:04:36,400
wasn't

3226
02:04:39,910 --> 02:04:38,560
the sheriff i mean the particular

3227
02:04:45,030 --> 02:04:39,920
sheriff

3228
02:04:46,629 --> 02:04:45,040
1947

3229
02:04:50,390 --> 02:04:46,639
they were written up as sheriff and

3230
02:04:51,189 --> 02:04:50,400
deputy in the 1953 papers

3231
02:04:53,589 --> 02:04:51,199
so

3232
02:04:56,149 --> 02:04:53,599
that's what i found

3233
02:04:58,550 --> 02:04:56,159
is confirming evidence but

3234
02:05:00,470 --> 02:04:58,560
he said it was 1947.

3235
02:05:03,350 --> 02:05:00,480
it might have not been that sheriff

3236
02:05:05,189 --> 02:05:03,360
maybe he forgot what sheriff it was

3237
02:05:06,870 --> 02:05:05,199
i called the police department to see if

3238
02:05:08,790 --> 02:05:06,880
i could find out when

3239
02:05:10,149 --> 02:05:08,800
various people were deputy sheriffs and

3240
02:05:11,750 --> 02:05:10,159
they said they just didn't have any

3241
02:05:13,750 --> 02:05:11,760
information on that

3242
02:05:16,310 --> 02:05:13,760
but the sheriff wasn't

3243
02:05:18,790 --> 02:05:16,320
they reported if jeff slaughter wasn't

3244
02:05:20,870 --> 02:05:18,800
the sheriff in 1947. so there's

3245
02:05:23,189 --> 02:05:20,880
questions about that

3246
02:05:25,990 --> 02:05:23,199
now one of the difficult things in

3247
02:05:26,709 --> 02:05:26,000
trying to take a person's memory

3248
02:05:28,550 --> 02:05:26,719
and

3249
02:05:30,149 --> 02:05:28,560
find the factual basis behind the

3250
02:05:31,910 --> 02:05:30,159
recollection is

3251
02:05:33,589 --> 02:05:31,920
as the years pass and this has been the

3252
02:05:35,430 --> 02:05:33,599
problem with roswell

3253
02:05:37,350 --> 02:05:35,440
the story is always at least 30 years

3254
02:05:39,990 --> 02:05:37,360
old and then becomes 40 years old and

3255
02:05:42,790 --> 02:05:40,000
then 50 years old you're dealing with

3256
02:05:44,790 --> 02:05:42,800
all this ancient history

3257
02:05:46,390 --> 02:05:44,800
how do you possibly

3258
02:05:47,750 --> 02:05:46,400
believe any of it

3259
02:05:50,149 --> 02:05:47,760
well i don't think it's a matter of

3260
02:05:51,750 --> 02:05:50,159
believing i think we mainly published it

3261
02:05:53,669 --> 02:05:51,760
just to find out if we could find out

3262
02:05:56,310 --> 02:05:53,679
anything else

3263
02:05:57,910 --> 02:05:56,320
and we have been contacted but

3264
02:06:00,870 --> 02:05:57,920
i don't know exactly what we're finding

3265
02:06:02,950 --> 02:06:00,880
out quite yet so i won't say anything

3266
02:06:06,550 --> 02:06:02,960
but it was just kind of

3267
02:06:08,470 --> 02:06:06,560
to make make the um information public

3268
02:06:10,070 --> 02:06:08,480
and to see if we could find out any more

3269
02:06:12,470 --> 02:06:10,080
information

3270
02:06:14,550 --> 02:06:12,480
so there's a lot of questions about it

3271
02:06:16,950 --> 02:06:14,560
it was still kind of interesting though

3272
02:06:18,629 --> 02:06:16,960
because he reported this round object

3273
02:06:20,790 --> 02:06:18,639
that was 100 feet

3274
02:06:22,790 --> 02:06:20,800
in diameter and that sort of thing

3275
02:06:24,709 --> 02:06:22,800
now did he report this right out at

3276
02:06:25,589 --> 02:06:24,719
roswell or where exactly did he say it

3277
02:06:29,510 --> 02:06:25,599
was

3278
02:06:30,550 --> 02:06:29,520
on the ranch

3279
02:06:33,270 --> 02:06:30,560
no

3280
02:06:34,229 --> 02:06:33,280
okay all the rest of the roswell

3281
02:06:35,990 --> 02:06:34,239
crash

3282
02:06:37,270 --> 02:06:36,000
tales or stories

3283
02:06:40,310 --> 02:06:37,280
have been

3284
02:06:43,270 --> 02:06:40,320
they've presented the crash is to the

3285
02:06:44,470 --> 02:06:43,280
northwest of roswell

3286
02:06:47,830 --> 02:06:44,480
and brings

3287
02:06:49,910 --> 02:06:47,840
big springs texas is to the southeast

3288
02:06:52,629 --> 02:06:49,920
and they reported this is between big

3289
02:06:54,709 --> 02:06:52,639
springs and roswell and so it would be a

3290
02:06:57,270 --> 02:06:54,719
totally different direction from all the

3291
02:06:59,350 --> 02:06:57,280
other crises that have been reported

3292
02:07:01,830 --> 02:06:59,360
but he didn't say how far off from

3293
02:07:04,310 --> 02:07:01,840
roosevelt was he didn't give he pointed

3294
02:07:07,030 --> 02:07:04,320
to the map but you couldn't tell that

3295
02:07:08,790 --> 02:07:07,040
where he was pointing from in the video

3296
02:07:10,790 --> 02:07:08,800
and so

3297
02:07:13,270 --> 02:07:10,800
it's just unknown but it wasn't in

3298
02:07:15,189 --> 02:07:13,280
roswell

3299
02:07:18,390 --> 02:07:15,199
um so it may not even be connected with

3300
02:07:21,270 --> 02:07:18,400
the actual roswell incident itself

3301
02:07:23,750 --> 02:07:21,280
yeah he's he said this was a real crash

3302
02:07:25,750 --> 02:07:23,760
and he said it was 1947. but he could

3303
02:07:28,149 --> 02:07:25,760
remember wrong and that sort of thing

3304
02:07:31,109 --> 02:07:28,159
because it was some time later after he

3305
02:07:32,870 --> 02:07:31,119
reported and so that's why we're just

3306
02:07:34,709 --> 02:07:32,880
poking around to see if we can find out

3307
02:07:36,790 --> 02:07:34,719
anything else

3308
02:07:38,629 --> 02:07:36,800
is it really too late to ever

3309
02:07:40,790 --> 02:07:38,639
figure out what happened at roswell

3310
02:07:42,709 --> 02:07:40,800
unless there's a government document we

3311
02:07:46,550 --> 02:07:42,719
can recover

3312
02:07:51,270 --> 02:07:48,790
a government document we would recover

3313
02:07:54,470 --> 02:07:51,280
be really good

3314
02:07:56,229 --> 02:07:54,480
but i don't know if we're going to do it

3315
02:07:59,990 --> 02:07:56,239
i knew the

3316
02:08:01,430 --> 02:08:00,000
archivist at wright-patterson

3317
02:08:04,149 --> 02:08:01,440
and

3318
02:08:05,750 --> 02:08:04,159
he had an assignment to

3319
02:08:07,030 --> 02:08:05,760
investigate roswell and see if there was

3320
02:08:09,030 --> 02:08:07,040
any

3321
02:08:11,189 --> 02:08:09,040
advances that were directly tied to

3322
02:08:12,870 --> 02:08:11,199
roswell and he said he didn't find

3323
02:08:14,390 --> 02:08:12,880
anything

3324
02:08:15,669 --> 02:08:14,400
i mean there were a lot of advances

3325
02:08:17,830 --> 02:08:15,679
there but

3326
02:08:19,350 --> 02:08:17,840
so you don't know for sure

3327
02:08:22,629 --> 02:08:19,360
but he said he didn't find anything

3328
02:08:25,109 --> 02:08:22,639
directly related to roswell but he may

3329
02:08:27,510 --> 02:08:25,119
have not had the security clearances to

3330
02:08:29,510 --> 02:08:27,520
do that either

3331
02:08:30,709 --> 02:08:29,520
what's the biggest misinformation in

3332
02:08:32,229 --> 02:08:30,719
your book

3333
02:08:33,270 --> 02:08:32,239
that you figure we should all know about

3334
02:08:37,430 --> 02:08:33,280
the

3335
02:08:39,430 --> 02:08:37,440
important bit of misinformation that

3336
02:08:42,310 --> 02:08:39,440
that you talk about

3337
02:08:44,470 --> 02:08:42,320
i think the benefits was kind of

3338
02:08:46,629 --> 02:08:44,480
interesting because the government

3339
02:08:49,350 --> 02:08:46,639
deliberately went out to

3340
02:08:52,390 --> 02:08:49,360
feed him bad information

3341
02:08:56,069 --> 02:08:52,400
and to the point where it goes crazy

3342
02:08:59,030 --> 02:08:56,079
and also from what i find out mattel

3343
02:09:01,669 --> 02:08:59,040
the robertson pan panel was

3344
02:09:05,109 --> 02:09:01,679
set up by the cia

3345
02:09:07,109 --> 02:09:05,119
and purportedly a panel to investigate

3346
02:09:10,069 --> 02:09:07,119
ufos the way it was reported that was

3347
02:09:11,030 --> 02:09:10,079
the way it was reported to the public

3348
02:09:14,149 --> 02:09:11,040
well

3349
02:09:15,430 --> 02:09:14,159
the people of the tale thought

3350
02:09:16,709 --> 02:09:15,440
that

3351
02:09:18,950 --> 02:09:16,719
they weren't getting

3352
02:09:20,149 --> 02:09:18,960
the right information

3353
02:09:22,470 --> 02:09:20,159
that they weren't giving the right

3354
02:09:24,310 --> 02:09:22,480
information the robertson panel and

3355
02:09:25,669 --> 02:09:24,320
that's what the

3356
02:09:27,830 --> 02:09:25,679
letter by

3357
02:09:28,870 --> 02:09:27,840
howard cross was about

3358
02:09:32,069 --> 02:09:28,880
that

3359
02:09:34,390 --> 02:09:32,079
yet because we don't have the

3360
02:09:35,990 --> 02:09:34,400
information to give it to you and they

3361
02:09:38,470 --> 02:09:36,000
had it anyway

3362
02:09:39,510 --> 02:09:38,480
and dr heineck was a the air force

3363
02:09:41,350 --> 02:09:39,520
person

3364
02:09:42,470 --> 02:09:41,360
that was he was a

3365
02:09:44,310 --> 02:09:42,480
professor

3366
02:09:45,109 --> 02:09:44,320
but he was also hired by the government

3367
02:09:46,870 --> 02:09:45,119
to

3368
02:09:49,189 --> 02:09:46,880
study ufos

3369
02:09:50,709 --> 02:09:49,199
and so he should have been an authority

3370
02:09:54,069 --> 02:09:50,719
and he was

3371
02:09:55,510 --> 02:09:54,079
not invited to portions of the robertson

3372
02:09:57,589 --> 02:09:55,520
panel meetings

3373
02:09:58,870 --> 02:09:57,599
which sounded pretty funny

3374
02:10:00,629 --> 02:09:58,880
and so

3375
02:10:02,149 --> 02:10:00,639
from what i found out

3376
02:10:05,350 --> 02:10:02,159
they hired a bunch of

3377
02:10:08,229 --> 02:10:05,360
scientists to study ufos but they didn't

3378
02:10:11,270 --> 02:10:08,239
give them good information and they only

3379
02:10:12,950 --> 02:10:11,280
had them study for like a day or two and

3380
02:10:15,270 --> 02:10:12,960
they concluded that

3381
02:10:17,510 --> 02:10:15,280
they either they don't exist they're not

3382
02:10:20,310 --> 02:10:17,520
important in national security

3383
02:10:23,109 --> 02:10:20,320
and that was a setup in my opinion a

3384
02:10:24,790 --> 02:10:23,119
fake panel to make it look like ufos

3385
02:10:28,149 --> 02:10:24,800
don't exist

3386
02:10:38,229 --> 02:10:28,159
we have dr irena scott with gene and

3387
02:10:38,239 --> 02:10:42,950
thank you for listening to gcn

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visit

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3420
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3421
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flat i would flip flop all night long i

3422
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3424
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hours to part-time you're fired

3477
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according to gallup the unemployment

3478
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rate recently jumped to nearly nine

3479
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percent and the underemployment rate hit

3480
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a staggering 17.9 percent you're fired

3481
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one out of three young adults and one

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out of two recent college graduates are

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underemployed hello i'm keith abel a

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pharmacist and a home business

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entrepreneur in 2011 i became one of

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those statistics myself instead of

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looking for another job in corporate

3488
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doctors don't lie guy we're creating

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steady incomes for ourselves and would

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like to show you how to do the same if

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you want to supplement your current

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income replace your income so you don't

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have to become one of the statistics

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three one 866-257-3105-866-257-3100 five

3496
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3497
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those words start creating an extra

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income today eight six six two five

3499
02:14:57,589 --> 02:14:55,589
this is five clark author of the ufo

3500
02:15:00,090 --> 02:14:57,599
encyclopedia in other books you're

3501
02:15:11,350 --> 02:15:00,100
listening to the peercast

3502
02:15:13,109 --> 02:15:11,360
[Music]

3503
02:15:15,910 --> 02:15:13,119
you want to continue on that

3504
02:15:17,990 --> 02:15:15,920
framework and that recollection

3505
02:15:19,750 --> 02:15:18,000
irena before we go on

3506
02:15:22,310 --> 02:15:19,760
yeah i think that

3507
02:15:24,390 --> 02:15:22,320
they set up the robertson panel to

3508
02:15:26,069 --> 02:15:24,400
purport to show

3509
02:15:28,390 --> 02:15:26,079
that scientists

3510
02:15:30,629 --> 02:15:28,400
think there's nothing to ufos

3511
02:15:33,750 --> 02:15:30,639
and i think they gave the scientists

3512
02:15:35,270 --> 02:15:33,760
false information from what i heard

3513
02:15:36,709 --> 02:15:35,280
from people at battelle

3514
02:15:38,790 --> 02:15:36,719
and

3515
02:15:40,709 --> 02:15:38,800
then the scientists said well they're no

3516
02:15:42,390 --> 02:15:40,719
problem nothing to worry about

3517
02:15:44,709 --> 02:15:42,400
and i don't think they were working with

3518
02:15:47,350 --> 02:15:44,719
the best information at the time and the

3519
02:15:49,910 --> 02:15:47,360
people that tell them think so either

3520
02:15:52,069 --> 02:15:49,920
right if i recall correctly uh edward

3521
02:15:53,109 --> 02:15:52,079
rupelt who was running blue book at the

3522
02:15:55,189 --> 02:15:53,119
time

3523
02:15:57,830 --> 02:15:55,199
took great exception to their uh

3524
02:16:01,270 --> 02:15:57,840
suggestion that his pilots and people in

3525
02:16:03,189 --> 02:16:01,280
the military should be uh ridiculed for

3526
02:16:04,470 --> 02:16:03,199
reporting these sightings

3527
02:16:06,310 --> 02:16:04,480
i mean this is the person who was

3528
02:16:08,550 --> 02:16:06,320
actually charged with investigating them

3529
02:16:10,709 --> 02:16:08,560
at the time and he was and it wasn't

3530
02:16:12,950 --> 02:16:10,719
long after that that he was moved to i

3531
02:16:15,510 --> 02:16:12,960
think a whole other department he sort

3532
02:16:17,270 --> 02:16:15,520
of took it seriously and took an actual

3533
02:16:19,430 --> 02:16:17,280
scientific attitude

3534
02:16:21,430 --> 02:16:19,440
which i don't think the government

3535
02:16:23,030 --> 02:16:21,440
wanted anybody to take

3536
02:16:24,229 --> 02:16:23,040
because i think they were

3537
02:16:26,229 --> 02:16:24,239
using

3538
02:16:28,149 --> 02:16:26,239
things like the robertson panel to cover

3539
02:16:30,790 --> 02:16:28,159
up their information and they

3540
02:16:33,030 --> 02:16:30,800
appear that scientists don't find

3541
02:16:34,790 --> 02:16:33,040
anything to it and there was a lot of

3542
02:16:35,990 --> 02:16:34,800
controversy over that over their

3543
02:16:38,150 --> 02:16:36,000
findings

3544
02:16:39,910 --> 02:16:38,160
this was also back around when there was

3545
02:16:41,990 --> 02:16:39,920
something called the cold war going on

3546
02:16:44,230 --> 02:16:42,000
and i if i if i'm recalling correctly

3547
02:16:46,230 --> 02:16:44,240
there it was something to the effect

3548
02:16:48,709 --> 02:16:46,240
that they were concerned that actually

3549
02:16:50,950 --> 02:16:48,719
it was the reporting of the ufos

3550
02:16:53,509 --> 02:16:50,960
themselves that could potentially cause

3551
02:16:55,669 --> 02:16:53,519
a problem by hypothetically jamming up

3552
02:16:59,110 --> 02:16:55,679
communications and

3553
02:17:00,629 --> 02:16:59,120
providing a distraction for more real

3554
02:17:02,389 --> 02:17:00,639
world intelligence

3555
02:17:05,589 --> 02:17:02,399
involving what might be going on with

3556
02:17:07,910 --> 02:17:05,599
the russians uh-huh so uh anything else

3557
02:17:10,309 --> 02:17:07,920
i mean obviously yes the robertson panel

3558
02:17:11,990 --> 02:17:10,319
for sure definitely a highlight in the

3559
02:17:15,349 --> 02:17:12,000
misinformation

3560
02:17:17,270 --> 02:17:15,359
we talk about cover-ups how do we know

3561
02:17:18,870 --> 02:17:17,280
if there's a cover-up if we don't have

3562
02:17:20,389 --> 02:17:18,880
the information that

3563
02:17:22,629 --> 02:17:20,399
you know that they allegedly have in

3564
02:17:24,870 --> 02:17:22,639
order to prove that there's a cover-up

3565
02:17:27,349 --> 02:17:24,880
well it seems we can only infer it

3566
02:17:28,469 --> 02:17:27,359
yeah well like in the pinnacle

3567
02:17:30,150 --> 02:17:28,479
memorandum

3568
02:17:33,830 --> 02:17:30,160
which was

3569
02:17:34,950 --> 02:17:33,840
written by howard cross of mattel i knew

3570
02:17:35,750 --> 02:17:34,960
people that

3571
02:17:37,110 --> 02:17:35,760
knew

3572
02:17:38,709 --> 02:17:37,120
those people that were doing the

3573
02:17:41,589 --> 02:17:38,719
investigations

3574
02:17:43,669 --> 02:17:41,599
and they were pretty serious that they

3575
02:17:46,150 --> 02:17:43,679
needed a good study

3576
02:17:47,669 --> 02:17:46,160
to find out what was going on

3577
02:17:49,589 --> 02:17:47,679
and the government didn't want to spend

3578
02:17:50,709 --> 02:17:49,599
any money and they set up this fake

3579
02:17:51,589 --> 02:17:50,719
panel

3580
02:17:59,270 --> 02:17:51,599
and

3581
02:18:01,190 --> 02:17:59,280
they need the information before they

3582
02:18:02,549 --> 02:18:01,200
give it to the government but the

3583
02:18:04,549 --> 02:18:02,559
government

3584
02:18:07,589 --> 02:18:04,559
gave these scientists particular

3585
02:18:09,349 --> 02:18:07,599
information they didn't invite dr

3586
02:18:12,790 --> 02:18:09,359
heineck to several

3587
02:18:13,910 --> 02:18:12,800
meetings and it was sort of my opinion

3588
02:18:15,270 --> 02:18:13,920
that maybe

3589
02:18:17,830 --> 02:18:15,280
they were giving

3590
02:18:18,870 --> 02:18:17,840
bad information to the places where he

3591
02:18:21,429 --> 02:18:18,880
wasn't

3592
02:18:22,629 --> 02:18:21,439
invited and that this is why they didn't

3593
02:18:24,950 --> 02:18:22,639
invite him

3594
02:18:27,429 --> 02:18:24,960
that's kind of uh reminiscent of the

3595
02:18:28,469 --> 02:18:27,439
whole condon committee investigation as

3596
02:18:30,150 --> 02:18:28,479
well where

3597
02:18:33,910 --> 02:18:30,160
there was people from

3598
02:18:34,870 --> 02:18:33,920
nycap i think it was kehoe and uh

3599
02:18:36,950 --> 02:18:34,880
they went

3600
02:18:38,629 --> 02:18:36,960
and wanted to present specific really

3601
02:18:39,990 --> 02:18:38,639
good information from their sightings

3602
02:18:43,030 --> 02:18:40,000
files and

3603
02:18:45,830 --> 02:18:43,040
discovered that condon had already

3604
02:18:48,309 --> 02:18:45,840
reached a conclusion before any of the

3605
02:18:50,389 --> 02:18:48,319
investigation had even really been done

3606
02:18:52,629 --> 02:18:50,399
conor didn't even investigate anything

3607
02:18:54,309 --> 02:18:52,639
himself he'd start out with that opinion

3608
02:18:56,230 --> 02:18:54,319
that there's nothing to it and he

3609
02:18:58,629 --> 02:18:56,240
maintained his opinion

3610
02:19:00,230 --> 02:18:58,639
and that was contradicted by the data

3611
02:19:02,070 --> 02:19:00,240
because they couldn't explain about

3612
02:19:04,070 --> 02:19:02,080
one-third of their sightings

3613
02:19:06,709 --> 02:19:04,080
and scientifically that just you know

3614
02:19:08,309 --> 02:19:06,719
baloney because if you can't explain one

3615
02:19:10,950 --> 02:19:08,319
third of your data

3616
02:19:12,790 --> 02:19:10,960
you don't present it as being true

3617
02:19:14,230 --> 02:19:12,800
yeah i think it was richard hawley

3618
02:19:16,469 --> 02:19:14,240
prepared some

3619
02:19:17,990 --> 02:19:16,479
extensive report with some you know the

3620
02:19:19,750 --> 02:19:18,000
best of their cases

3621
02:19:21,910 --> 02:19:19,760
and they happened to be wandering the

3622
02:19:24,150 --> 02:19:21,920
halls down there the story goes and

3623
02:19:26,469 --> 02:19:24,160
just found that it was just lying on his

3624
02:19:29,349 --> 02:19:26,479
desk it was like no nothing it

3625
02:19:31,349 --> 02:19:29,359
had it hadn't even been looked at and

3626
02:19:33,270 --> 02:19:31,359
next to it pretty much was the draft of

3627
02:19:35,830 --> 02:19:33,280
the opinions that there was uh pretty

3628
02:19:37,509 --> 02:19:35,840
much nothing to it the suggestion was is

3629
02:19:39,190 --> 02:19:37,519
that he'd already made up his mind

3630
02:19:41,669 --> 02:19:39,200
before reading the

3631
02:19:43,669 --> 02:19:41,679
information and a lot of the people that

3632
02:19:46,150 --> 02:19:43,679
were actually doing the investigations

3633
02:19:47,830 --> 02:19:46,160
totally disagreed with him and the

3634
02:19:49,830 --> 02:19:47,840
conclusions

3635
02:19:52,309 --> 02:19:49,840
at that time i think it was either the

3636
02:19:53,750 --> 02:19:52,319
robertson i think it was a condom though

3637
02:19:57,990 --> 02:19:53,760
where he said that

3638
02:19:59,270 --> 02:19:58,000
any interest in ufos by students

3639
02:20:00,389 --> 02:19:59,280
should be

3640
02:20:01,990 --> 02:20:00,399
quenched

3641
02:20:04,790 --> 02:20:02,000
and that's ridiculous that's like

3642
02:20:07,429 --> 02:20:04,800
brainwashing kids i mean why should they

3643
02:20:09,750 --> 02:20:07,439
quench the information

3644
02:20:11,910 --> 02:20:09,760
and the interest in ufos by children if

3645
02:20:13,270 --> 02:20:11,920
there's nothing to it

3646
02:20:16,550 --> 02:20:13,280
and i think they were giving bad

3647
02:20:18,550 --> 02:20:16,560
information to the public on the condom

3648
02:20:20,150 --> 02:20:18,560
study too

3649
02:20:21,590 --> 02:20:20,160
uh is that this do you cover some of

3650
02:20:24,230 --> 02:20:21,600
that in your book as well a bit of the

3651
02:20:25,670 --> 02:20:24,240
condom a bit of the robertson panel

3652
02:20:27,750 --> 02:20:25,680
uh-huh

3653
02:20:30,469 --> 02:20:27,760
what else can we uh look forward to well

3654
02:20:31,990 --> 02:20:30,479
then i did when i wrote the book

3655
02:20:33,910 --> 02:20:32,000
but

3656
02:20:35,670 --> 02:20:33,920
i mean it seems more fake now than it

3657
02:20:37,910 --> 02:20:35,680
did when i wrote the book i thought

3658
02:20:39,510 --> 02:20:37,920
those things were pretty fake that would

3659
02:20:41,830 --> 02:20:39,520
continue

3660
02:20:43,429 --> 02:20:41,840
oh that was kind of

3661
02:20:44,550 --> 02:20:43,439
exhausted my line there gene have you

3662
02:20:46,469 --> 02:20:44,560
got any

3663
02:20:48,710 --> 02:20:46,479
thing else there

3664
02:20:50,950 --> 02:20:48,720
well i just wanted to mention something

3665
02:20:53,590 --> 02:20:50,960
to you about a show we did last week

3666
02:20:55,429 --> 02:20:53,600
with peter robbins who was co-author of

3667
02:20:57,990 --> 02:20:55,439
left and east gate and he worked with

3668
02:21:00,230 --> 02:20:58,000
the late bud hopkins abductions and he

3669
02:21:02,309 --> 02:21:00,240
had theory and he based it i guess in

3670
02:21:04,469 --> 02:21:02,319
part on going through the morgue of the

3671
02:21:06,150 --> 02:21:04,479
new york times and checking the early

3672
02:21:08,790 --> 02:21:06,160
reports of ufos

3673
02:21:10,070 --> 02:21:08,800
and he theorized that in the early days

3674
02:21:12,870 --> 02:21:10,080
of the field

3675
02:21:14,870 --> 02:21:12,880
president truman dispatched

3676
02:21:15,670 --> 02:21:14,880
members of we'll call them the silence

3677
02:21:17,670 --> 02:21:15,680
group

3678
02:21:19,750 --> 02:21:17,680
to visit major

3679
02:21:21,510 --> 02:21:19,760
publishers of newspapers the press

3680
02:21:23,270 --> 02:21:21,520
barons around the country

3681
02:21:25,110 --> 02:21:23,280
and simply tell them in the interests of

3682
02:21:26,630 --> 02:21:25,120
national security

3683
02:21:29,190 --> 02:21:26,640
don't take this seriously if you're

3684
02:21:31,110 --> 02:21:29,200
going to report a story about ufos

3685
02:21:33,670 --> 02:21:31,120
make it funny make it

3686
02:21:36,150 --> 02:21:33,680
just something to laugh about

3687
02:21:38,550 --> 02:21:36,160
what do you think of that theory

3688
02:21:41,429 --> 02:21:38,560
i think they still do it because like on

3689
02:21:42,870 --> 02:21:41,439
our local tv stations here

3690
02:21:44,950 --> 02:21:42,880
when they

3691
02:21:48,550 --> 02:21:44,960
say ufos they all sort of

3692
02:21:50,389 --> 02:21:48,560
act snarky and give each other grins and

3693
02:21:52,389 --> 02:21:50,399
roll their eyes and everything i think

3694
02:21:54,389 --> 02:21:52,399
that type of thing is still going on

3695
02:21:56,389 --> 02:21:54,399
maybe they don't have specific orders to

3696
02:21:58,150 --> 02:21:56,399
do it because maybe it's just something

3697
02:21:59,830 --> 02:21:58,160
that came down from that time or

3698
02:22:02,710 --> 02:21:59,840
something that

3699
02:22:05,990 --> 02:22:02,720
newspaper or

3700
02:22:07,590 --> 02:22:06,000
tv people and that sort of thing

3701
02:22:08,389 --> 02:22:07,600
don't report

3702
02:22:11,510 --> 02:22:08,399
or

3703
02:22:14,870 --> 02:22:11,520
make it sound like people are crazy

3704
02:22:21,270 --> 02:22:17,830
well of course i mean there is to be

3705
02:22:23,429 --> 02:22:21,280
fair there is a lot of

3706
02:22:25,349 --> 02:22:23,439
problems with the ufology community and

3707
02:22:27,910 --> 02:22:25,359
the way that it's reported and

3708
02:22:31,349 --> 02:22:27,920
and the studies that go on and

3709
02:22:34,710 --> 02:22:31,359
so i mean what can we do ourselves

3710
02:22:36,790 --> 02:22:34,720
to improve this like is there a single

3711
02:22:39,830 --> 02:22:36,800
thing that you think the ufology

3712
02:22:42,070 --> 02:22:39,840
community might be able to do to

3713
02:22:43,590 --> 02:22:42,080
to unite on some front instead of just

3714
02:22:45,510 --> 02:22:43,600
everybody defending their own little

3715
02:22:46,790 --> 02:22:45,520
piece of territory and

3716
02:22:48,309 --> 02:22:46,800
and uh

3717
02:22:50,550 --> 02:22:48,319
personal beliefs and theories and

3718
02:22:54,950 --> 02:22:50,560
wishful thinking or

3719
02:22:56,790 --> 02:22:54,960
how do we get people to cooperate

3720
02:22:59,190 --> 02:22:56,800
to the standards that say someone like

3721
02:23:01,990 --> 02:22:59,200
yourself would would think is really

3722
02:23:06,950 --> 02:23:05,429
i don't know i'd say sort of keep trying

3723
02:23:08,950 --> 02:23:06,960
to push

3724
02:23:11,429 --> 02:23:08,960
the frontiers of

3725
02:23:13,110 --> 02:23:11,439
science to include

3726
02:23:15,990 --> 02:23:13,120
ufo study

3727
02:23:17,990 --> 02:23:16,000
because that's a part of our environment

3728
02:23:20,550 --> 02:23:18,000
you can you don't have to have hard

3729
02:23:22,070 --> 02:23:20,560
evidence such as a ufo crashing at the

3730
02:23:24,309 --> 02:23:22,080
white house to

3731
02:23:25,750 --> 02:23:24,319
give people the idea that

3732
02:23:28,550 --> 02:23:25,760
there might be something to it you can

3733
02:23:29,910 --> 02:23:28,560
use soft information and do a lot of

3734
02:23:33,270 --> 02:23:29,920
statistics

3735
02:23:35,190 --> 02:23:33,280
and that sort of thing and so

3736
02:23:36,469 --> 02:23:35,200
i think they ought to

3737
02:23:37,910 --> 02:23:36,479
have

3738
02:23:40,950 --> 02:23:37,920
better

3739
02:23:43,270 --> 02:23:40,960
um citing reports where they ask

3740
02:23:44,790 --> 02:23:43,280
personal information about people

3741
02:23:46,870 --> 02:23:44,800
because people don't have to fill it out

3742
02:23:49,110 --> 02:23:46,880
they don't want to like are you crazy

3743
02:23:50,790 --> 02:23:49,120
have you ever been insane asylum

3744
02:23:54,469 --> 02:23:50,800
and um

3745
02:23:59,429 --> 02:23:56,550
they'll say well if you see a ufo you're

3746
02:24:01,910 --> 02:23:59,439
crazy well study

3747
02:24:04,630 --> 02:24:01,920
uh people that aren't crazy obviously

3748
02:24:06,950 --> 02:24:04,640
they're functioning in society just fine

3749
02:24:08,389 --> 02:24:06,960
and report that they've seen ufos and

3750
02:24:09,670 --> 02:24:08,399
that sort of thing i think there could

3751
02:24:11,030 --> 02:24:09,680
be a lot more

3752
02:24:14,309 --> 02:24:11,040
pertinent data

3753
02:24:17,670 --> 02:24:14,319
collected that could be studied

3754
02:24:19,510 --> 02:24:17,680
through statistics right now

3755
02:24:22,550 --> 02:24:19,520
one more segment

3756
02:24:24,550 --> 02:24:22,560
with dr irena scott and jay randall

3757
02:24:26,309 --> 02:24:24,560
murphy and gene steinberg

3758
02:24:33,710 --> 02:24:26,319
you're in the

3759
02:24:41,990 --> 02:24:38,790
[Music]

3760
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3870
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hello this is john burroughs one of the

3871
02:28:57,030 --> 02:28:55,200
witnesses to the rendelsome ufo incident

3872
02:29:07,510 --> 02:28:57,040
you're listening to the paracast the

3873
02:29:11,750 --> 02:29:09,349
irena let's pick up on what you were

3874
02:29:14,389 --> 02:29:11,760
talking about for this our final segment

3875
02:29:16,469 --> 02:29:14,399
okay i think that one way to do it would

3876
02:29:17,990 --> 02:29:16,479
be for the government to sponsor a real

3877
02:29:20,309 --> 02:29:18,000
good study

3878
02:29:23,030 --> 02:29:20,319
and hire scientists and do that but the

3879
02:29:25,110 --> 02:29:23,040
government isn't going to and

3880
02:29:27,590 --> 02:29:25,120
i think that's part of the cover-up

3881
02:29:29,190 --> 02:29:27,600
because if this is something important

3882
02:29:31,349 --> 02:29:29,200
it ought to be studied

3883
02:29:32,550 --> 02:29:31,359
and so i mean that would be the way to

3884
02:29:35,270 --> 02:29:32,560
do it

3885
02:29:37,910 --> 02:29:35,280
but otherwise it's up to individual

3886
02:29:39,270 --> 02:29:37,920
people and organizations

3887
02:29:41,349 --> 02:29:39,280
and i think

3888
02:29:44,950 --> 02:29:41,359
one thing that would help would be

3889
02:29:47,429 --> 02:29:44,960
when scientists have had experiences

3890
02:29:49,670 --> 02:29:47,439
they ought to see something about them

3891
02:29:51,750 --> 02:29:49,680
such as publicizing them or admitting

3892
02:29:53,670 --> 02:29:51,760
them in public and that sort of thing a

3893
02:29:55,429 --> 02:29:53,680
few people have

3894
02:29:57,670 --> 02:29:55,439
and that makes a big impression on

3895
02:29:59,429 --> 02:29:57,680
people such as the

3896
02:30:01,670 --> 02:29:59,439
astronauts

3897
02:30:03,590 --> 02:30:01,680
and even some of the presidents

3898
02:30:05,750 --> 02:30:03,600
but it'd be handy if

3899
02:30:08,870 --> 02:30:05,760
a lot of other scientists

3900
02:30:10,230 --> 02:30:08,880
said yes i've had experiences too and

3901
02:30:12,070 --> 02:30:10,240
reported them

3902
02:30:13,750 --> 02:30:12,080
we've had a few

3903
02:30:15,349 --> 02:30:13,760
uh gene mentioned high neck of course

3904
02:30:17,349 --> 02:30:15,359
he's a scientist and

3905
02:30:19,590 --> 02:30:17,359
yourself you've got some credentials and

3906
02:30:21,510 --> 02:30:19,600
maccabees got some credentials but then

3907
02:30:23,030 --> 02:30:21,520
you got guys you know like uh degrasse

3908
02:30:25,030 --> 02:30:23,040
tyson who

3909
02:30:27,270 --> 02:30:25,040
is pretty much a hardened skeptic and he

3910
02:30:28,950 --> 02:30:27,280
goes around lecturing at colleges and

3911
02:30:31,110 --> 02:30:28,960
openly ridicules

3912
02:30:33,510 --> 02:30:31,120
the subject and and perpetuates that

3913
02:30:35,830 --> 02:30:33,520
giggle factor with people so you know

3914
02:30:37,990 --> 02:30:35,840
how are we supposed to

3915
02:30:39,750 --> 02:30:38,000
convince those people that there's

3916
02:30:42,230 --> 02:30:39,760
something more to it

3917
02:30:44,230 --> 02:30:42,240
the debunkers have a

3918
02:30:47,270 --> 02:30:44,240
illogical position

3919
02:30:49,990 --> 02:30:47,280
because they say people are believers

3920
02:30:52,790 --> 02:30:50,000
they believe in ufos and the debunkers

3921
02:30:55,030 --> 02:30:52,800
are people that do not believe in ufos

3922
02:30:58,070 --> 02:30:55,040
well either way it's belief it isn't

3923
02:31:00,389 --> 02:30:58,080
science and if you say you're a debunker

3924
02:31:02,790 --> 02:31:00,399
and you don't believe in ufos you're

3925
02:31:04,950 --> 02:31:02,800
just the same as the people that believe

3926
02:31:07,830 --> 02:31:04,960
because what you need to do is look at

3927
02:31:10,469 --> 02:31:07,840
evidence and see what's going on and

3928
02:31:12,550 --> 02:31:10,479
cut out the beliefs just look at what's

3929
02:31:14,630 --> 02:31:12,560
what evidence there is

3930
02:31:16,309 --> 02:31:14,640
and so i think when they say scientists

3931
02:31:18,630 --> 02:31:16,319
don't believe if they're not saying

3932
02:31:20,150 --> 02:31:18,640
anything that's very logical

3933
02:31:23,110 --> 02:31:20,160
well they would claim that if you're

3934
02:31:24,790 --> 02:31:23,120
going to make a claim like ufos that the

3935
02:31:26,469 --> 02:31:24,800
burden of proof is on the person who

3936
02:31:27,590 --> 02:31:26,479
makes the claim so

3937
02:31:28,950 --> 02:31:27,600
they're just

3938
02:31:31,190 --> 02:31:28,960
saying well we don't believe because

3939
02:31:32,469 --> 02:31:31,200
there's no real evidence and they've

3940
02:31:34,070 --> 02:31:32,479
looked at whatever evidence and they

3941
02:31:35,670 --> 02:31:34,080
wish that there would be

3942
02:31:37,750 --> 02:31:35,680
more evidence but there really isn't

3943
02:31:39,910 --> 02:31:37,760
anything but anecdotes and

3944
02:31:41,830 --> 02:31:39,920
urban myths and legends and things that

3945
02:31:43,510 --> 02:31:41,840
can't be verified

3946
02:31:45,110 --> 02:31:43,520
scientifically

3947
02:31:47,670 --> 02:31:45,120
so

3948
02:31:49,750 --> 02:31:47,680
it's kind of difficult to

3949
02:31:52,230 --> 02:31:49,760
to counter that point i mean i've tried

3950
02:31:54,469 --> 02:31:52,240
myself and i ultimately had to admit

3951
02:31:56,630 --> 02:31:54,479
well really we don't have

3952
02:31:59,830 --> 02:31:56,640
verifiable scientific information that

3953
02:32:01,349 --> 02:31:59,840
proves the existence of alien visitation

3954
02:32:03,429 --> 02:32:01,359
maybe it would be helpful for us to just

3955
02:32:04,070 --> 02:32:03,439
admit that up front yeah we don't have

3956
02:32:08,630 --> 02:32:04,080
it

3957
02:32:10,630 --> 02:32:08,640
that kind of evidence

3958
02:32:11,910 --> 02:32:10,640
but i don't think you need hard evidence

3959
02:32:15,110 --> 02:32:11,920
because

3960
02:32:17,429 --> 02:32:15,120
science itself is based on probability

3961
02:32:20,550 --> 02:32:17,439
when you write a scientific paper

3962
02:32:22,870 --> 02:32:20,560
you say this is probable within certain

3963
02:32:25,429 --> 02:32:22,880
confidence limits

3964
02:32:27,190 --> 02:32:25,439
i mean sinus isn't science isn't

3965
02:32:29,510 --> 02:32:27,200
something that's established and already

3966
02:32:31,910 --> 02:32:29,520
known it's embedded so you can explore

3967
02:32:33,830 --> 02:32:31,920
the unknown and for example with the

3968
02:32:36,790 --> 02:32:33,840
battelle study

3969
02:32:39,190 --> 02:32:36,800
this came within the

3970
02:32:41,190 --> 02:32:39,200
statistical probability limits that they

3971
02:32:42,710 --> 02:32:41,200
would normally use on a

3972
02:32:43,590 --> 02:32:42,720
scientific paper

3973
02:32:48,790 --> 02:32:43,600
that

3974
02:32:50,230 --> 02:32:48,800
the characteristics

3975
02:32:53,030 --> 02:32:50,240
of

3976
02:32:54,950 --> 02:32:53,040
ufos that are never identified plus

3977
02:32:56,230 --> 02:32:54,960
compared to ufos that are later

3978
02:32:59,190 --> 02:32:56,240
identified

3979
02:33:02,070 --> 02:32:59,200
they compared characteristics of these

3980
02:33:03,590 --> 02:33:02,080
and in five out of six categories

3981
02:33:06,389 --> 02:33:03,600
it showed that they

3982
02:33:09,429 --> 02:33:06,399
the probability that the

3983
02:33:10,710 --> 02:33:09,439
ufos that remain unidentified are

3984
02:33:12,790 --> 02:33:10,720
different

3985
02:33:13,990 --> 02:33:12,800
than the ones that are identified later

3986
02:33:15,030 --> 02:33:14,000
which

3987
02:33:17,670 --> 02:33:15,040
is

3988
02:33:19,349 --> 02:33:17,680
in the probability limits of science of

3989
02:33:22,870 --> 02:33:19,359
anything you'd write in a scientific

3990
02:33:24,230 --> 02:33:22,880
journal so i think there is evidence

3991
02:33:25,910 --> 02:33:24,240
that

3992
02:33:28,790 --> 02:33:25,920
something's going on

3993
02:33:31,670 --> 02:33:28,800
within the realms of science

3994
02:33:34,550 --> 02:33:31,680
that would be a good a good um

3995
02:33:36,550 --> 02:33:34,560
counterpoint to say that well we we have

3996
02:33:38,630 --> 02:33:36,560
to think it's reasonable

3997
02:33:41,190 --> 02:33:38,640
that something is going on but it

3998
02:33:42,550 --> 02:33:41,200
doesn't prove anything so

3999
02:33:44,950 --> 02:33:42,560
you know

4000
02:33:47,910 --> 02:33:44,960
the whole issue of proof

4001
02:33:49,349 --> 02:33:47,920
is something that seems to vary between

4002
02:33:50,710 --> 02:33:49,359
the people who are looking at the

4003
02:33:53,030 --> 02:33:50,720
evidence

4004
02:33:55,590 --> 02:33:53,040
what would you consider to be proof

4005
02:33:58,550 --> 02:33:55,600
i would say if we

4006
02:34:00,469 --> 02:33:58,560
people aren't given hard proof

4007
02:34:02,710 --> 02:34:00,479
study the soft proof

4008
02:34:05,590 --> 02:34:02,720
you can study things in science without

4009
02:34:06,790 --> 02:34:05,600
having hard proof

4010
02:34:08,950 --> 02:34:06,800
i mean

4011
02:34:10,950 --> 02:34:08,960
science isn't there to

4012
02:34:13,030 --> 02:34:10,960
keep establishing what's already known

4013
02:34:15,270 --> 02:34:13,040
it's there to explore what you don't

4014
02:34:17,510 --> 02:34:15,280
know

4015
02:34:18,950 --> 02:34:17,520
absolutely

4016
02:34:20,790 --> 02:34:18,960
one of the things i wonder about here

4017
02:34:21,670 --> 02:34:20,800
and possibly the key fact

4018
02:34:24,630 --> 02:34:21,680
is

4019
02:34:26,230 --> 02:34:24,640
if we're looking for spaceships

4020
02:34:27,990 --> 02:34:26,240
are we ever going to get anywhere

4021
02:34:29,670 --> 02:34:28,000
because that's what apparently mufon is

4022
02:34:31,510 --> 02:34:29,680
doing for example

4023
02:34:33,110 --> 02:34:31,520
they claim to be involved in scientific

4024
02:34:34,870 --> 02:34:33,120
research what the director says he's

4025
02:34:37,190 --> 02:34:34,880
rooting for hch

4026
02:34:38,469 --> 02:34:37,200
so if you're rooting for eth

4027
02:34:39,910 --> 02:34:38,479
isn't this going to lead you down a

4028
02:34:41,830 --> 02:34:39,920
blind alley

4029
02:34:43,590 --> 02:34:41,840
well i think that was a trouble with the

4030
02:34:46,550 --> 02:34:43,600
battelle study

4031
02:34:48,469 --> 02:34:46,560
and that it wasn't accepted because it

4032
02:34:51,190 --> 02:34:48,479
was done by engineers

4033
02:34:52,710 --> 02:34:51,200
and they were looking for craft

4034
02:34:54,469 --> 02:34:52,720
and so they had

4035
02:34:56,070 --> 02:34:54,479
pretty good evidence statistically that

4036
02:34:58,469 --> 02:34:56,080
something was going on

4037
02:35:01,429 --> 02:34:58,479
but they didn't discover

4038
02:35:03,270 --> 02:35:01,439
actual technological craft so he said

4039
02:35:06,230 --> 02:35:03,280
well this means nothing

4040
02:35:07,750 --> 02:35:06,240
well as statistics do mean something

4041
02:35:11,590 --> 02:35:07,760
and the theories

4042
02:35:12,790 --> 02:35:11,600
that ufos are craft might be wrong

4043
02:35:18,150 --> 02:35:12,800
so

4044
02:35:22,790 --> 02:35:18,160
and just see statistically how it turns

4045
02:35:25,670 --> 02:35:22,800
out without having a theory

4046
02:35:27,429 --> 02:35:25,680
a definite theory

4047
02:35:30,469 --> 02:35:27,439
so

4048
02:35:31,429 --> 02:35:30,479
i don't know ufos or crafts or

4049
02:35:35,110 --> 02:35:31,439
whether

4050
02:35:38,309 --> 02:35:35,120
are

4051
02:35:39,750 --> 02:35:38,319
but i don't think you should

4052
02:35:42,710 --> 02:35:39,760
set up something to prove that they're

4053
02:35:44,790 --> 02:35:42,720
crafts because they may not be

4054
02:35:46,950 --> 02:35:44,800
what is your feeling at this point and

4055
02:35:49,030 --> 02:35:46,960
we have a minute or two left here

4056
02:35:51,750 --> 02:35:49,040
you're looking into stuff that may be

4057
02:35:53,349 --> 02:35:51,760
beyond our reality but you also said

4058
02:35:54,550 --> 02:35:53,359
something there earlier

4059
02:35:56,870 --> 02:35:54,560
about

4060
02:35:59,190 --> 02:35:56,880
highly advanced

4061
02:36:02,950 --> 02:35:59,200
society sending

4062
02:36:05,590 --> 02:36:02,960
a exploration here would we even be able

4063
02:36:07,030 --> 02:36:05,600
to detect who and what they were

4064
02:36:09,190 --> 02:36:07,040
no

4065
02:36:11,510 --> 02:36:09,200
may be the same thing as a nevis trying

4066
02:36:13,750 --> 02:36:11,520
to figure out a television

4067
02:36:15,670 --> 02:36:13,760
or even less

4068
02:36:18,070 --> 02:36:15,680
so there could be

4069
02:36:20,710 --> 02:36:18,080
ufo phenomena here all the time that we

4070
02:36:24,469 --> 02:36:20,720
just don't even know about

4071
02:36:26,150 --> 02:36:24,479
that implies also that when we see ufos

4072
02:36:27,670 --> 02:36:26,160
that appear to be something we could

4073
02:36:30,790 --> 02:36:27,680
recognize

4074
02:36:32,230 --> 02:36:30,800
that's put on for our benefit

4075
02:36:33,750 --> 02:36:32,240
it could be

4076
02:36:36,550 --> 02:36:33,760
and i've been taking

4077
02:36:37,750 --> 02:36:36,560
courses in quantum mechanics and

4078
02:36:38,469 --> 02:36:37,760
other things

4079
02:36:41,030 --> 02:36:38,479
and

4080
02:36:43,429 --> 02:36:41,040
with quantum mechanics you could explain

4081
02:36:46,070 --> 02:36:43,439
some of the things that you see in ufo

4082
02:36:48,550 --> 02:36:46,080
phenomena for example they'll say

4083
02:36:51,510 --> 02:36:48,560
somebody report that these entities go

4084
02:36:52,870 --> 02:36:51,520
through walls well by

4085
02:36:54,790 --> 02:36:52,880
regular

4086
02:36:57,030 --> 02:36:54,800
1950s

4087
02:36:58,950 --> 02:36:57,040
physics that would be impossible

4088
02:37:01,830 --> 02:36:58,960
but with the quantum theory

4089
02:37:04,630 --> 02:37:01,840
there's a note things aren't localized

4090
02:37:06,630 --> 02:37:04,640
and you can shoot a beam at a of

4091
02:37:09,030 --> 02:37:06,640
particles or something at the

4092
02:37:11,110 --> 02:37:09,040
at a barrier and some of them will

4093
02:37:12,710 --> 02:37:11,120
appear on the other side of the barrier

4094
02:37:14,070 --> 02:37:12,720
well if some

4095
02:37:15,110 --> 02:37:14,080
other

4096
02:37:17,110 --> 02:37:15,120
group

4097
02:37:19,510 --> 02:37:17,120
were more proficient at doing that we

4098
02:37:20,469 --> 02:37:19,520
could show people

4099
02:37:23,429 --> 02:37:20,479
that

4100
02:37:25,510 --> 02:37:23,439
sort of thing

4101
02:37:27,670 --> 02:37:25,520
also they keep saying that

4102
02:37:29,590 --> 02:37:27,680
these stars are billions and billions of

4103
02:37:30,469 --> 02:37:29,600
miles away and

4104
02:37:32,150 --> 02:37:30,479
that

4105
02:37:34,630 --> 02:37:32,160
nothing go faster than light well

4106
02:37:37,990 --> 02:37:34,640
they've already proven quantum theory

4107
02:37:40,150 --> 02:37:38,000
with the entangled particles experiments

4108
02:37:41,270 --> 02:37:40,160
that something goes faster in the speed

4109
02:37:43,510 --> 02:37:41,280
of light

4110
02:37:45,030 --> 02:37:43,520
irene tell our listeners they want more

4111
02:37:46,790 --> 02:37:45,040
information do you have a website or

4112
02:37:50,309 --> 02:37:46,800
someplace they can check out

4113
02:37:52,469 --> 02:37:50,319
what we have now is just the amazon.com

4114
02:37:55,190 --> 02:37:52,479
placeholder selling the book and if they

4115
02:37:56,630 --> 02:37:55,200
just put in the title amazon.com should

4116
02:37:58,550 --> 02:37:56,640
pop up

4117
02:38:01,110 --> 02:37:58,560
and they can order

4118
02:38:04,070 --> 02:38:01,120
you can find us on twitter look for at

4119
02:38:06,070 --> 02:38:04,080
the power cast that's at the power cast

4120
02:38:09,670 --> 02:38:06,080
look for two official power cast fan

4121
02:38:11,670 --> 02:38:09,680
clubs on facebook look for the official

4122
02:38:13,349 --> 02:38:11,680
power cast channel

4123
02:38:15,830 --> 02:38:13,359
on youtube

4124
02:38:16,870 --> 02:38:15,840
we've got over 125 shows up there we're

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02:38:19,990 --> 02:38:16,880
gonna get

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02:38:26,950 --> 02:38:24,720
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4133
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4134
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4137
02:38:46,710 --> 02:38:44,640
scott

4138
02:38:48,950 --> 02:38:46,720
you make so much sense thank you for

4139
02:38:51,480 --> 02:38:48,960
joining us on the powercast well thank

4140
02:39:04,389 --> 02:38:51,490
you very much for inviting me

4141
02:39:10,150 --> 02:39:07,270
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4142
02:39:13,110 --> 02:39:10,160
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4144
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